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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10075
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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 Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: tomcos |
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| sgtpepper wrote: |
| As per Tencentlife's post, the new tomco disk injectors should have a slightly higher fuel consumption during warm-up - has anyone who runs these experienced this? |
Uhh, not me; I don't believe I ever said anything like that.
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sgtpepper
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2008
Posts: 59
Location: La Habra, CA 90631
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry; I believe your post said that it should run richer during warm-up. My mistake.
OR did I completely misunderstand the whole thing? The higher flow rate of the tomco over the OEM Bosch will be unaccounted for until the engine warms up and the lambda system takes over, thereby causing the engine to run rich until that point - right? please help me understand if I'm wrong - I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the FI system.
Assuming that, has anyone running the tomco disk-type injectors experienced this effect?
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1984 1.9L manual Vanagon (No A/C) "Sgt. Pepper" |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10075
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I ever commented on the Tomco injectors, but if you have the link you can set me right.
If they have a higher flow rate than stock, then what you're saying about running richer open loop would be true, all else being the same.
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sgtpepper
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2008
Posts: 59
Location: La Habra, CA 90631
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| tclark wrote: |
| mattcfish wrote: |
| Nic These are "rotory disc" injectors not the standard "pintle" design. Rotory disc designed injectors are less effected by materials that would clog pintel injectors. |
I was wondering WHY they are less "effected"
Rotary disk design features a self-cleaning disk (no pintle) to prevent carbon deposits and clogged injectors.
I noted the flow rate is a bit higher
18.13 lbs per hour at 36.25 psi
spec for bosch is
16.1lbs/hr, 36.3 psi |
| tencentlife wrote: |
Quality comparisons aside (and there's no reason to reject these out of hand on that basis except perhaps for jingoistic superstition), and assuming the fit and spray pattern match OEM, tclark has hit on the main factor in compatibility: flow rate. The stock ECU determines injector duty cycle on the assumption that the injectors flow at a given rate at a given pressure. If the injector flow rate is higher, the actual fuel delivered to the intakes would be more under a given set of conditions. If that were all there was to it, you would find your fuel consumption going up by a factor of 18.13/16.1.
But that's not all there is to it. The lambda control system is going to take over and bring the warm-running mixture back to stoich, easily correcting for the higher flow rate, provided your o2 sensor is doing its job.
Where you might see a difference is during warmup, when the ECU runs open-loop, and at WOT when it does the same. Under WOT conditions the extra flow might be a benefit if your engine can utilise the fuel; that's an open question dependent on the state of tune and overall condition of your engine, but my guess is that the extra fuel would just be wasted. Fuel utilisation by these engines in stock tune is already pretty poor.
While warming up, the mixture will be richer, so that is something to watch for if it makes the motor run poorly until it hits the coolant temp threshhold where lambda takes over. Merely adjusting your CO screw is not likely to provide enough correction here; you may actually need to alter the basic AFM setting.
Other than those things, I can't see any good reasons not to give them a try. |
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1984 1.9L manual Vanagon (No A/C) "Sgt. Pepper" |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10075
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Well there ya go.
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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I think I'd take a look at this thread prior to tossing your bucks away on injector "rebuilding".
A 100,000 mile injector is and always will be an injector with big miles on it.
Cleaning it sure won't make it brand new.
It isn't going to "Heal' it--back to it's original specifications.
I'd have new waaay before I'd have old crap cleaned and expect new injector performance.
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well, its been a while since this thread was started. How are those Tomco injectors doing? People happy? People sad...?
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
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sgtpepper
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2008
Posts: 59
Location: La Habra, CA 90631
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: refurbish |
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I ended up sending mine in to witch hunter, as the new tomco / Bosch injectors were too expensive. The difference in performance before and after witch hunter was amazing. It has been a year since I did that and they are still goin' strong. I'm glad I didn't buy new ones.
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1984 1.9L manual Vanagon (No A/C) "Sgt. Pepper" |
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indytriple
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009
Posts: 710
Location: Brownsburg, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I can't even find a place that sells the Tomco injectors any more. None of the old links in this thread work. Does anyone have a link to a current vendor? Are these still available? I'd like to consider these as an alternative to new or rebuilt injectors.
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87 Vanagon Westy Auto Bostig
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fredn
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Joined: May 27, 2010
Posts: 332
Location: Vancouver
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fredn
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2010
Posts: 332
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way can I use these in my 82 Air cooled vanagon? |
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walnutplanter
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| I replaced my original Bosch injectors with Tomco injectors last year. They are working great. |
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RCB
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| fredn wrote: |
| By the way can I use these in my 82 Air cooled vanagon? |
Thats an option for you...or stroll on over to Autohaus AZ and get brand new Bosch injectors for about $52.00 each. Part number for our ( I have an 82 too) application is 0-280-150-114.
Free shipping too  |
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Navy_Flyer
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: Beck/Arnley? |
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| Advanced Auto offers both new and remanufactured Beck/Arnley FI's. Any opinion on this type for the 87 Westy 2.1L auto? |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10367
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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so tclark and mattcfish or anyone with these.....
how are these Tomco injectors holding up?
Their pdf catalogue for 2.1 WBX says:
1992-1986 2.1L (MV) 130"
OEM # 0-280-150-206
PN: 15501
Price for one:
15501 $64.44
Thanks,
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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a1fa
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2011
Posts: 585
Location: Central Arkansas, United States
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: |
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bump.. price went up.. 15501 $64.44
i don't want to buy reman...any other alternatives?
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I picked up four of the VW Vanagon GP Sorensen/Tomco/Lucas injectors from AutoZone online Part Number: 800-1206N, normally $32 each. Total price was 127.96..free shipping..Discount of $25.60 with the coupon code: CARLOVE. (may not work now..check latest discount codes online) With sales tax..the charge was $109.54. That's $27.39 each.
GP Sorensen and Tomco just re-badge the Lucas injectors.
Have had them installed for about a week, plug and play..I did not have to readjust the CO. Smooth idle and easy starting. Fuel economy is too early to tell..last tank full was the same MPG..maybe slightly better. Its been very cold here in Georgia.
I think these injectors are a good alternative. The Lucas disc style injector seems like a match for the WBX engines.
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a1fa
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2011
Posts: 585
Location: Central Arkansas, United States
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I called autozone earlier this morning, and they were NLA. I ended up ordering SMP FJ18 for $44/pop.
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| a1fa wrote: |
| I called autozone earlier this morning, and they were NLA. I ended up ordering SMP FJ18 for $44/pop. |
I just checked and they are available online at Autozone.com Order using "ship to home". The website says not normally stocked in stores. Anyways..they do have them, just use the website.
Use the discount code SAVE1520 and the total for all four injectors is $102.37 and free shipping. |
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Navy_Flyer
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
| a1fa wrote: |
| I called autozone earlier this morning, and they were NLA. I ended up ordering SMP FJ18 for $44/pop. |
I just checked and they are available online at Autozone.com Order using "ship to home". The website says not normally stocked in stores. Anyways..they do have them, just use the website.
Use the discount code SAVE1520 and the total for all four injectors is $102.37 and free shipping. |
+1 just verified myself - available online for ship-to-home just as A-S stated. SAVE1520 current and working.
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