T4 1.7 refesh/rebuild

[WI sportmobile]

Hi folks,
I pulled the engine out of my 73 last week end to fix some issues over the winter. This will be my first engine tear down/ build. I have the Bentley and Wilson books but I anticipate having a few questions along the way so I thought I’d start a new thread. It’s a t4 1700, it had good compression and there was no loss of power, but after a couple bouts with gas in the oil it developed some leaks. The valves became very loud on #1 and it has developed a dull clunking sound when idling. I did a full tune up but it didn’t seem to resolve and of my issues. So… time to tear it down and see if I can find the smoking gun. I’m hoping I can reuse the P&Cs since the compression is good, and have new valves put in the heads. If not I’ll go to an 1800 and have the heads fly cut. Here are a couple of general engine photos, the 1,2 side head and the pistons and cylinders I hope to reuse. I haven’t measured them yet, still waiting for a mic. and a scale. I plan on splitting the case tonight.

Any thoughts, comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Martin
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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[busdaddy]

See what it looks like inside, someone's been in there before going by the plugged gallerys and it looks like they used the good stuff for the rebuild. I'd try to recycle as much of the genuine stuff as you can as alot of replacement parts are sub par these days.
Don't go mixing up any lifter or piston/cylinders.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

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[old DKP driver]

As Busdaddy said: take your time tearing it down so you can use as many
parts that can be saved.
First off the "CB" case has Unknown and NOT factory lettering/numbers
so,its a rebuild from who knows where.
Notice how the 108210 is not inline with the CB....AND, the gold coloring
is not even the right color for a Factory rebuild that for quite a long
time were done in Canada.

Also the galley plugs were not factory and, appears the builder had to find
another plug that does not match the 2 aluminum ones.

Put the flywheel back on and torque the bolts to 85 ft# and check endplay before going any farther.
Most importantly.... fix your fuel problem or all the work will be useless.carbs,fuel pressure pump.

The head you removed looks like it's only been on for a short time and, the
Mahle pistons are getting hard to find.
Let us know more after you pull a rod off and check the bearing wear.
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V.W.owner since 1967

[WI sportmobile]

Thanks for the comments fellas. Yeah I knew it had been rebuilt before. When I bought it the ad said "rebuilt motor less than 4k miles" but we all know what that can mean. I really hope I can keep this a refresh and just replace the bearings, seals and valves. But I want that smoking gun.

BD: each cam lifter has it's own bag. Lots of zip lock bags for parts so far, about 50 to 100 I hope my sharpie doesn't run out of ink.

DKP: Too late to put the fly wheel back on... Just split the case. I did address the fuel issue by installing a shut off valve and a regulator but the damage was already done. Will reset the floats and maybe look into other options like solenoid shut offs.
Checked the side clearance on the rods. 0.015 in. just inside the tolerance?
Also looked a little closer at the othe pistons. two of them have dings like this and the other three have the logo ground off and a different type of markings on top?

Guess there was no need to point out the ding after I looked at the pic on screen.
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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[old DKP driver]

That's fine as you seem to be paying attention to detail.
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V.W.owner since 1967

[SGKent]

[WI sportmobile]

Okay, I visually inspected the cam, crank, bearings and removed the rods tonight.

Noticed what seem to be stress cracks on the interior of the case around the studs.

This area here is either cracked or this is a casting mark. There is a large burr on the left side. Not really sure what to think about it. It seems to head up the side of the lifter hole but doesn't go all the way through. Sorry lifter hole isn't a very technical term, take a look.

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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[Desertbusman]

Sure does look like cracks in both pictures. the top one in the #2 head studs.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[WI sportmobile]

Here's a look at the cam and cam bearings. I keep looking but I still can't seem to find a + or- on the gear?

I couldn't get a good picture of the wear on the toe's, but there is a definite uneven wear pattern that has a dimension when I run my fingernail across them. Also the bearings show uneven wear.

All and all the cam doesn't look like shit but it is worn. Should I look into having it re ground with the lifters or should I get a new set? Like I said, so far this is all a visual inspection.
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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[WI sportmobile]

[bugger101]

i would send the case to the machine shop and hot tank it. Have them check out the cracks. A good hot tanking does wonders
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75 west deluxe http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5270450#5270450

2010 ford focus

[WI sportmobile]

Okay, I found a couple of local shops that do machine work and will be calling them this week about the case. I’m also thinking of bringing in my crank and fly wheel for measurement and having them dynamically balanced. I’ll have to ask them about cleaning or reconditioning my pistons and cylinders. (Is there a term for this? I know I saw it somewhere in a thread but I’m on search over load right now.) I have to say neither of the local places work on VWs that often. They are big into muscle cars and the ilk.

Also I’ve been trying to understand the specs on cams and I’m totally confused. Can anyone shed some light on what a stock 1.7 would have? I’m starting to think that a new cam is a good idea after looking at the lifters and their lack of wear.
Any help would be great, especially what the specs for a “stock” cam should be.
Martin
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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[WI sportmobile]

Bump

Could use some help with cam selection. Would the web cam stock t4 cam be a good option for my 1700?
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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[mnskmobi]

[old DKP driver]

I take the case has been checked out and you also had the galley plugs
removed and reinstalled After cleaning and the inspection was done?
and the "Cracks were just casting flaws"..
As far as cam selection is concerned you can go stock or upgrade to a mild
cam & lifters.
www.cbperformance.com $$
www.webcamshafts.com also has great mild cams available.$$$
depending on your budget .

My choice for Budget would be a Mild 2201 cam and lifter set up from
cb performance.
also,did the machine shop that rebuilt the heads also replace the valve springs at the same time....You also will need a cam gear and bolts.

What carbs will you run ? what fuel pump?what compression ratio?
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V.W.owner since 1967

[WI sportmobile]

thanks for the input.

old DKP: What do you mean by "mild" ? I'm interested in the web cams but don't know which one to get. Or how the specs effect overall performance.

I haven't brought the case in anywhere yet, Still haven't decided who to trust with it here in town. Also The heads haven't been rebuilt since I've owned the bus. I'm thinking of sending them to Headflow Masters but I want to decide on the cam and lifters first. The stock gear on the cam is in good shape and I think I can still use it with a new shaft.

As far as carbs go I have a newer set of 34 icts that I plan on using.

Any thoughts?
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73 VW T2 Sportsmobile T4 1800 dual webber ICT's
06 TOY Tacoma TRD

Don't mess with the DNR.
"Bargain hunter becomes the bargain hunted."

[Bleyseng]

If you are staying with stock valves sizes, stock muffler and Compression Ratio then the "Stock" cam from Webcam is the best option with those little carbs.
If you want a little more hp go with 42x36 valves and the Web73 but its pushing it with those little carbs.
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70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles

[SGKent]

I would be concerned about the pistons and liners being mix and match.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Red Fau Veh]

I like to suggest that you get this book here, it's called AIRCOOLED VW ENGINE INTERCHANGE MANUAL by Keith Seume And you can learn all about cams and how they work and what is best for vw engines. http://www.amazon.com/Aircooled-Engine-Interchange-Manual-Aftermarket/dp/0760303142 I looked into the cams and they say in the book that stock cams in vw's are choosen by VW to be a perfect match for the bus. If you change the cam for one with more valve lift you can get more fuel and air into the engine but without better flowing heads and exhaust, it isn't needed. The stock cam is made to make torque at the lower rpm levels a bus drives at most of the time, and a race cam means keeping the rpms higher to get the power and torque. It's a good read folks.
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1971 Deluxe Sunroof Bay 1905 stroker, dual idf40's, 74mm Scat forged crank, engle 110 cam. CB 044 heads, AutoCraft rockers, chromoly push rods
1973 Orange transporter stock type 4 with dual 40 Dellortos and Empi single quiet pack
1969 Adventurewagen blue whale Gene Berg 1776 built by Dave Kawell dual 36 DRLA's, Vintage Speed exhaust, Bosch 019 screamer
1961 Swivel Seat camper, L345 grey

[cefalu]

Did you ever figure out where you were leaking oil from? I had the same problem with gas in my oil caused by weber ICT's.

And, now I have an oil leak too. It's coming from the rear of the engine, my guess is the crank seal by the fan. Not a quick fix it.
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1970 Jeepster Commando
1974 Volkswagen P27 Westfalia Camper
1974 Mercedes SL350 Euro Market Model
1974 Jeep J-20 ZZ
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6
2005 Toyota 4Runner V8 Sport
2008 Mercedes E350 Wagon
2018 Lexus GX460