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davideric9 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1000 Location: Oakland CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: 2wd Gas tank Exposed - cut in half (pics) |
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Just for the record I was having trouble with my van (2wd 1987) running well and it would sputter out and try to die. I would pull over and then it would seem fine and I drove it to work and home again. It did the same thing the next day, pull over near the house as it lost power, waited a few moments and then was able to drive to work with no problem, until I had to have it towed home when if wouldn't stay started.
I decided that the tank was the problem after replacing many parts. It ran great after the tank was replaced, so to be sure I really had this solved I needed to look inside the tank to see the problem, and I found it. The supply hose was no longer securely attached to the tank, so at half a tank the pump was sucking more air than fuel as the pump was not sucking fuel from the bottom of the sump.
Tank cut open with sawzall
filters at the center of the tank, in case you were wondering
The supply hose as I found it no longer making a seal to the hose (not great focus)
and to show it up close and pulled apart
_________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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xoo00oox Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010 Posts: 2672 Location: East Nassau, NY
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time to do this. I have seen this problem a number of times over the years but never spent time to cut one open. |
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Vango Conversions Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2010 Posts: 1054 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for cutting one open, I always wondered exactly what was in there. I've heard some speculation but haven't seen inside for myself.
Did you rinse it out with water before cutting to reduce the kaboom factor? |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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just put a gas tank behind a car, and run a hose from the tail pipe to the tank filler. Idle the car. The heat and exhaust will quickly evaporate the tank, and besides, exhaust has almost no O2 in it, and without O2 there is no risk of combustion.
We have done that for decades to prep tanks for welding/brazing.
WARNING: The fuel tank will get quite hot, even with just an idling engine, so be careful when you go to touch it!!!! _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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I had always been under the impression that the outlet screen faced down and thus would somewhat self cleaning, but it looks like yours is facing up?
I find it strange that VW never redesigned the tank after they went to the water cooled engines and thus could have simplified everything. |
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Racerrojo Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006 Posts: 827 Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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That stupid plastic tube. Don't understand why is not metal,
It's a $3 part the will cost you $200 _________________ Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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AdrianC Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2012 Posts: 526 Location: Wherever the road's gone
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I find it strange that VW never redesigned the tank after they went to the water cooled engines and thus could have simplified everything. |
I don't see how they could, tbh. There's nothing about the tank that'd vary water-cooled to air-cooled, and the expansion/breather tanks are needed because of the shape imposed by the position and the need for the gear linkage to go above it. _________________ Adrian
Zookeeper of a miscellany of motoring silliness, from 0.75bhp to 9ft tall.
Living life on the road in an '88 2.1DJ Westfalia Club Joker Hightop.
www.WhereverTheRoadGoes.com |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: |
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AdrianC wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
I find it strange that VW never redesigned the tank after they went to the water cooled engines and thus could have simplified everything. |
I don't see how they could, tbh. There's nothing about the tank that'd vary water-cooled to air-cooled, and the expansion/breather tanks are needed because of the shape imposed by the position and the need for the gear linkage to go above it. |
It would have been very simple to route the radiator hoses, heater hoses, and even a gear shift cable around the tank instead of up through the big divot in the middle designed for the aircooled's heat tube. This would have eliminated the wacko tank venting and the problems it pose plus maybe given a badly needed increase in fuel capacity. Without going out and finding and aircooled to look at, I would think it would have not been all that difficult for them to have even run the aircooled heat pipe up one side instead of through the middle and thus have eliminated their engineering FUBAR for all models. |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Not to go OT, but seriously, the Vanagon was a run out model. Last of the kind. Why mess with parts that work for a decade? When SA got a hold of it they implemented a bigger tank. They had budget. The mother-ship did not plan for the Vanagon to last forever. They had the new Eurovan coming on line and meeting the requirements for more uniform common build parts. Read that as a water cooled inline engine with front axles.
The Vanagon was not safe enough any more, too for the US.
It was the last of the rear engined boxers that were to come from Germany.
It was a lame duck.
It just made no sense to mod the tank.
Sorry for the OT. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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The basic tank design was used for the whole Vanagon run so they could and should have designed something better from the get go. The tank is a total redesign from the Bay Window bus and in no way a hold over so there was no reason not to make it better and probably cheaper right from the start. It's an engineering FU, IMO. |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
The basic tank design was used for the whole Vanagon run so they could and should have designed something better from the get go. The tank is a total redesign from the Bay Window bus and in no way a hold over so there was no reason not to make it better and probably cheaper right from the start. It's an engineering FU, IMO. |
SA did revise the tank.
The tank now only after 20+ years gives issue.
"it is an old car, what do you expect?" _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:12 am Post subject: |
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People have been having problems with these tanks for at least 10 years at this point, some much earlier. Any design this complicated is way more apt to give problems than something simpler would have. One thing that I have never liked about VW and that I believe greatly negatively affected their sales, is that they would tolerate problems for years before making an engineering fix.
Heck they had suggested modifications shown in the Bentley for things they were still not doing on the factory floor. |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Let's see some pics of the SA fuel tank...
and how many gal.s did it hold? _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9923 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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It is just the same basic tank but longer toward the back. The frame crossmember has to be moved back for it to fit in any of our vans and longer tank supports go along with that. It held 6 more gallons.
All this crying about a simple to drop and easy to maintain stock tank. Babies.
Mark
randywebb wrote: |
Let's see some pics of the SA fuel tank...
and how many gal.s did it hold? |
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