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Boxer builder Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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I am liking ALB's reply so i am going for 5.325" rods which is what i was thinking all along. Also may try the web 86b and the 1.4's with dual springs. |
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Itisa1835 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2011 Posts: 123 Location: Norco
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: Learn to read and you will learn....lol |
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Reworked does not mean used rebuilt,..... dam, learn to read....reworked is a matched set the that has been sized, balanced , smoothed with new bolts way beyond factory or the local shop tolerances, GB VW rods sets are a perfect example... |
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Boxer builder Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Learn to read and you will learn....lol |
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Itisa1835 wrote: |
Reworked does not mean used rebuilt,..... dam, learn to read....reworked is a matched set the that has been sized, balanced , smoothed with new bolts way beyond factory or the local shop tolerances, GB VW rods sets are a perfect example... |
Sorry mate. Did i offend you? I am not using VW german rods in this build. Move along. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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modok wrote: |
Web's camshafts "DO" |
Ill have to verrify that for my self on this next build.
do you need duel springs?? are you winding it high? notb all apps are in need of duel springs, and remember when using ratio rockers that adds to the pressure on the pushrod/lifter side by the added ratio.I dont like using more spring that required.but if it's needed it's needed. |
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Boxer builder Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Ok i have my cam and rods sorted for this build. Going with a web 163 and 5.5" rods. Thanks for your advice people. A quick email to John at aircooled.net and all sorted. My email to John was replied to within 15 minutes. Outstanding service as usual. |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Boxer builder wrote: |
Ok i have my cam and rods sorted for this build. Going with a web 163 and 5.5" rods. Thanks for your advice people. A quick email to John at aircooled.net and all sorted. My email to John was replied to within 15 minutes. Outstanding service as usual. |
Boy I would love to hear john's reason that a 78 crank needs a 5.5 rod. What rockers are you going to run with the web 163? Dan |
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Boxer builder Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi Dan, i will just run 1.1 rockers with Porsche swivel feet adjusters. |
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tmcdade Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2008 Posts: 195 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Boxer builder wrote: |
Ok i have my cam and rods sorted for this build. Going with a web 163 and 5.5" rods. Thanks for your advice people. A quick email to John at aircooled.net and all sorted. My email to John was replied to within 15 minutes. Outstanding service as usual. |
John knows you're using A pistons? Usually he recommends 5.5's for a 78mm w/ B pistons bc it gets the deck height close with minimal shimming _________________ Travis
1972 Super Beetle
1907cc |
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ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3483 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Boxer builder- Are you going to use the A pistons you have? I ask because with 5.5" rods that will make for a wider motor. If you were racing and looking for power in the 5000rpm+ range the longer rods make sense, but for the street a shorter rod motor (as well as being narrower and easier to fit tin and be easier to install) will make the best power where you are always using it... _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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With B pistons if you use 5.4s with a 78 crank you have too much deck and have to overly deck the case or machine the cylinders.
With 5.5s you just use a small shim to get the deck perfect and you are done.
When you go to a 82mm crank you should go back to 5.4" rods though.
I use/recommend 5.5 rods with B pistons and 76 or 78mm cranks.
The same logic is why when going to a 84mm crank I use 5.325" pistons, to keep external engine geometry close to stock. Once you start widening or narrowing the engine excessively you run into problems with engine bays, cooling tin, and exhaust fitment. All headaches easily avoided with proper planning. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Boxer builder wrote: |
Hi Dan, i will just run 1.1 rockers with Porsche swivel feet adjusters. |
The 163 is what I call a tweener cam. A little too slow for 1.1 rockers and a little too fast for 1.4 and the 1.25's are just about right. The web 110 is better suited to 1.1 rockers but it has more duration at some loss of low end but adds more top. The engle 110 is a better choice with stock rockers and it would be in the same ball part duration wise as the 163.
Back to crank, pistons and rods. For a 78 crank, A pistons with stock length rods is best because the A pistons have longer skirts for better rocking support, the pin location also supports the piston better, the engine width is kept reasonable and the 1.75 to 1 rod stroke ratio is right in the sweet spot.
Dan |
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ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3483 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: |
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John: originally this was about the stroker crank AND his A pistons. You've convinced him to spend more money? _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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Boxer builder Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have sold the 90.5 A p&c as i found John had Mahle 90.5 B sets for sale so that is why i am going with his reccomendation on the 5.5" rods. As for cam i will see how it goes. As this engine is just a fun build for the ghia i don't mind if i have to disassemble to install a bigger cam if i don't like the combo. I am just wanting a cruizer engine. I have a 2.3 in my bug that has big cam and heads which is fun. |
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Boxer builder Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 44 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dan i don't have a complete set of 1.25 rockers but i plan to do rocker geometry with both 1.1 and 1.25. So i will get the shim and pushrod length combo's of both ratios and if i don't like the 1.1's i will buy a set of 1.25's and swap them out |
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Arnolds64 Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004 Posts: 724
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: This is similar to my engine. |
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[email protected] wrote: |
With B pistons if you use 5.4s with a 78 crank you have too much deck and have to overly deck the case or machine the cylinders.
With 5.5s you just use a small shim to get the deck perfect and you are done.
When you go to a 82mm crank you should go back to 5.4" rods though.
I use/recommend 5.5 rods with B pistons and 76 or 78mm cranks.
The same logic is why when going to a 84mm crank I use 5.325" pistons, to keep external engine geometry close to stock. Once you start widening or narrowing the engine excessively you run into problems with engine bays, cooling tin, and exhaust fitment. All headaches easily avoided with proper planning. |
This is exactly my engine - 5.5 Rods with the 2017 78.4x90.5. I had to use .070 in shims to set my deck height to .040 with my H Beams works fine. I am running the equivalent to the Panchitos with some 40x 35 P&P'd heads by me. I would suggest by all means to use a much large cam with the 1.1.1 rockers. I am using and Engle 130. Had a 110 that is similar to the 163. BORING! Had torque almost to much as it was very touchy and hard to drive in cruising speeds. With a stroker you don't need that short duration cam. With the 130 it is very linear. Now however you do need at least 44 IDFs. But I can tell you it just rips in comparison. With the 110 -5500 and it was over. Now it will go to 7000 with power. Probably 20 hp gain. 461 lift/ 308 dur./ 267@ .050. With this cam I fly cut my heads to 51cc and with the .040 deck running right at 10.1 C/R. Runs actually cooler than it did with 8.5.1 and the 110. Strokers like more duration. _________________ 64 Bug, White, 2017, Dual Weber 44's, Engle 130/Engle lifters, Home P&P'd 40X35 heads, CB 4340 nitrided crank, Eagle knock off H Beam 5.5" rods, Lowering Beam, Rancho Trans, Traction Bar. 225X60's rear, 145's front on Porsche Chrome Nipple Wheels. |
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DINO2276 Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2010 Posts: 51 Location: Hacienda heights ,CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'd go with 5.325" with web 86b 1.4's rockers and CB 650's springs. _________________ GEERS ENGINEERING
LAT RACING OILS
JCLRACECARS
64 notchback 12.35@107 |
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