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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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In California we got the looming carbon tax starting in 2014, it is predicted to increase utiltiy rates at least 40% in two years time. The laws goal is to price utilities higher to decrease demand of utiltiies. This will effect electric car power costs, it is not a prediction, it is the plan.
If high test gasoline is only $5 in two years, that would still be less than half the percent increase than the 40% planned jump in electric rates. This 40% incease assumes no inflation, this planned 40% increase is in real dollars. Inflation if any occurs, will increase the cost of electricty beyond the planned 40% amount. |
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thisguyfel
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2011
Posts: 70
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
In California we got the looming carbon tax starting in 2014, it is predicted to increase utiltiy rates at least 40% in two years time. The laws goal is to price utilities higher to decrease demand of utiltiies. This will effect electric car power costs, it is not a prediction, it is the plan.
If high test gasoline is only $5 in two years, that would still be less than half the percent increase than the 40% planned jump in electric rates. This 40% incease assumes no inflation, this planned 40% increase is in real dollars. Inflation if any occurs, will increase the cost of electricty beyond the planned 40% amount. |
And many EV owners have been adding solar to their homes, along with local storage capacities... being both grid-tied and stand alone allows for "making money" by feeding power to the grid, while also keeping batteries to have off-grid options.
40% increase in CA is going to suck, EV owner or not. simply turning on your lights and cooking dinner will change. or going out to eat since businesses will also be hit by that increase. gas station overhead goes up. it all plays out to suck, a lot for Californians.
in the mean time, I'm happy with my vehicle options... if/when costs increase for gasoline and electricity, well, we'll recalculate if needed and adjust accordingly. I am enjoying the Leaf NOW, and not afraid of what's going to happen you in CA in two years, or me in WA however much later.
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'91 Tornado Red NAHT'd Carat |
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mikey9
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Inverness, Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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I seems that for some - any investment in anything considered by them to be "alternative" (PV/Solar/Renewables/Electric/Rainwater harvesting etc...) has to demonstrate a "pay back" time - whereas most other things people describe on The Samba have no such equation applied.
Payback for fitting an SVX, H6, 2.2, 2.5, Tenc motor etc......no, I don't remember anyone trying to calculate that one.
Perhaps for Syncro driveline conversion......no - people don't expect payback time for that either.
People do things like this because they want to - and the same should/does apply for an electric conversion - if you want to invest in one - then you will, and if it works for you - then good on you.  |
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svenakela
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2006
Posts: 776
Location: Ekerö
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Spot on Mikey! 
I know nothing about your electric price rates, but were I live gas and diesel are way more expensive than cable power. As I wrote earlier the gas is about 9 USD a gallon. Electric depends a little bit on your choices (only wind/water, nuclear etc) but I have "green tech agreement" and pay $0.150/kWh. A plugin hybrid goes ~4.5 miles/kWh, I can go many electrical miles on a gallon of gas.
Actually, I want to buy a Doka and convert it into a plugin, we'll see when it happens...  |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mikey9 wrote: |
I seems that for some - any investment in anything considered by them to be "alternative" (PV/Solar/Renewables/Electric/Rainwater harvesting etc...) has to demonstrate a "pay back" time - whereas most other things people describe on The Samba have no such equation applied.
Payback for fitting an SVX, H6, 2.2, 2.5, Tenc motor etc......no, I don't remember anyone trying to calculate that one.
Perhaps for Syncro driveline conversion......no - people don't expect payback time for that either.
People do things like this because they want to - and the same should/does apply for an electric conversion - if you want to invest in one - then you will, and if it works for you - then good on you. |
true that some dont care about cost, But most people dont have enough extra income to not care. the original poster must have some cost concerns, as that person stated the cost of the batteries being considered and expressed fasination with not having to buy gas again, all in the same sentence.
As far as payback, I did consider the cost of my gasoline engine upgrade verses fuel milage. I could have opted for a yet bigger motor, and suffered reduced milage. I could have opted for a change in gearing to optimize a more powerful motor in the quest to improve milage, but the payback didn't make sense to me money wise as far as saved fuel. I have heard subaru motors can get better mpg than the wasserboxer in a van, I did the calucaltions and found the Subaru would nto save me enough to make the payback I needed.
i also carefuilly compaired different brands of pistons and their cost, chinese or American made. most of the replacement parts on my van I shoped around for the best price for a good part.
One thing I have learned from this post is that there is a huge variation in electric rates and even electric capacity in different places . Electric cars can save money over gas cars in fuel costs if the electric is cheap enough. cars can be charged at home but some areas dont have the needed nieghborhood electric service required for more than a small fraction of homes to plug in all at once. some homes dont have the capacity to support some high speed charges at all. Other areas evidently have higher levels of electric service to the homes and cheap rates.
Can an electic car save money fuel wise? yes, in some instances, no in other instances. |
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Otmar
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
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joseph928
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011
Posts: 2114
Location: flagstaff az.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: Elec. van |
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 I don't care about the cost or pay back, just seems not right to drive a Syncro off road on electricity! If I have to drive one of them green things, I'll just park and live in my van down by the river! 
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1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug. |
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NC Dude
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2012
Posts: 127
Location: Cary
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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You'd save a heck of a lot more than just gas imo
No Syncro tranny to worry about.
You don't use tranny's in electric vehicles and each wheel has its own motor.
No clutch to fuss with, no bleeding of the cooling system.
I could go on, but you get the point
If/when batteries truly become affordable, it'll be a no brainer for sure and will come close to 3-400 mile range, same as a full fill up at the gas station.
Solar panels can help charge in remote places and quick change battery station can pop a new pack in so your ready to go in 15 minutes or less if they become standardized.
But, we've recently taken over some of the biggest oil fields in the name of freedom and democracry so don't hold your breath |
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