Regarding the "No machining 1800cc"

[uncle_fly]

Hello again all, i have been doing some reading about power upgrades for my stock 1600 and i stumbled across this article.

http://www.hornbyislandwares.com/acn/1737/1800cc-vw-engine-no-machine-combo/

I'm curious if anyone on here has built one, and if so how do they rate it. I have access to most of the parts needed for this build, at very reasonable prices. I'm hesitant to have machining done, mainly because of price, due to the shops around me charging exorbitant prices upwards of 250 for the case alone. What would be the downfall to building this with 88mm pistons (slip in at the case machine in at the heads) a 74mm crankshaft, Engle 100 or fk-41 cam. Compared to building a 1776 or 1914. Would i be sacrificing power our longevity somewhere? I know there was a discussion a while back regarding this subject but it seemed to skirt around my main questions. I truly would like to know why someone would amend do much and do so much machining to build a 1776 when you could build a 1800 with minimal machining

Thanks in advance

[bugguy1967]

1776s are easier to build. We don't do the machining, the machinist does, and when we get it back it goes together like stock.

Any increase in engine capacity will have noticeable power improvements, whether you bore or stroke. My first performance engine was a 1641 with a 100 cam and Kads. Definitely a bump over the stock 1600 dp. I've built a 1904 with a 110 cam and got to try it out for a day and it was an awesome combo. If I could do it all over, I'd try to find some 5.359 or 5.325 rods to keep the width closer to stock.

Either way, you're going to have to send some stuff out to the machine shop though.
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http://www.aircooled.net/1800cc-vw-engine-no-machine-combo/

is the most recent version of the article. The version you posted was an early and incomplete version during our new site development. Aircooled.Net is where you should be reading these.
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[RailBoy]

Like to hear more info on this as well.

Are there any peeps that have any "mega" miles on there slip in 88's?

Also, build sheets and HP numbers or any thing of that sort?

Like the idea of an affordable mild-stroker build, stock just is not enough for today's driving if its a daily driver is all in my opinion.... RB
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[quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]

[D/A/N]

[joescoolcustoms]

One of the things to put in your back pocket for rememberance is the 1800 is a stroker engine. The 1776 or 1835 engines are not strokers.

That extra stroke length helps create more torque down in the lower RPM's where your engine, in all reality, lives better than 90 % of the time unless you are racing.

A 1800 built with the same heads, cam, exhaust, carb(s) will produce more torque than a 1835.

So, what does torque REALLY mean?
Torque measures how much work can be done.
Horsepower measures how quickly THAT work can be done.

Torque pushes the heavy bus down the road, turns over the larger 31 10.50 Baja Tires, pulls the steep grade in a higher gear.

Horsepower accelerates quicker.
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[mcmscott]

Horsepower= how fast you hit the wall


Torque= how far you move the wall

Heard this some where, its not mine but I like it

[joescoolcustoms]

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if you are going to machine, don't forget you can use the 74 crank with 94mm pistons. It's not about budget, it's about "no machining" the case. If you don't have a good shop local, machining the case costs a fortune in shipping costs, not to mention hassle and time.

If you are going to get it machined, go 92mm Thick Wall or 94mm.
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[uncle_fly]

Was away for a but there but, I'm no closer to a resolution, i have access to a 74mm crank for fairly cheap and a set of heads machined to 92mm for $80 a piece, and a Engle fk41 cam for dirt cheap, seems as if i could go either route from here fairly easy

[[email protected]]

given this situation and using that crank and heads, I'd get a set of 90.5mm A P&Cs if you want to machine the case, or 88mm slip in thick walls if you don't, and 5.325" H-beams, and build it. Light flywheel too.

[uncle_fly]

If one wanted no machining could they for instance use 85.5 pistons with a 74 or 76mm crankshaft? And an Engle 100, fk41, or scat c-20. If so what push rods would be recommended, and what lifters would coincide properly with that setup. Also what would be the cc then, would it be worth it?

[DarthWeber]

[75smith]

85.5x74.............1699cc
85.5x76.............1745cc
or
85.5x78.4..........1801cc-----this combo could theoretically drop in with a little clearancing when using 85.5B pistons(vs. stock "A" pistons)

lifters depend on cam-scat uses scat, engle uses engle, cb uses cb, etc.

we can't tell you a pushrod length, that has to be measured-this is all due to the imperfections of aftermarket parts, and the imperfections in the case and heads-as for type(aluminum, cro-mo) aluminum for low revving motors(anything below 4500rpm) anything above is cro-mo or HD aluminum(hard to find/expensive)

any displacement is probably worth it, but that also depends on if you think the work to get there is worth it. I personally like a challenge and so somehow find the most difficult way to do something, enjoy it(sometimes)

1776
pros for building-slaps together like stock, rarely have to change pushrod size, mainly have to check compression ratio, stock like engine width

cons-must find a shop to machine the case

small Strokers(88x74, 85.5x74 etc.)
pros can give a little more power, depending on cam can give 'more' torque down low

cons- must measure rocker geometry, check clearances more(especially rod nuts to case/barrels, spacers-depending on rods-funky engine width
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[uncle_fly]

So this topic has had me up at night trying to figure out how to spend my money/time and sorry to all so many questions but, were i to rebuild my 1600 with 85.5 pistons and cylinders use a 69mm counter weighted crankshaft, and a performance cam camshaft would i feel a noticeable difference in torque and power? I'm mainly looking for reliability, but i do want a bit of extra oomph. What cam would everyone recommend for a 1600? Engle 100/110 fk41? What it's a cheater cam? Also considering a set of cip1 1.25 rocker arms any advice is once again appreciated, and why do people speak of lightening the flywheel? What purpose does that serve? I have also heard that the Engle 100 or 110 would be too lumpy a cam with dual kadron 40/44's fact or fiction?

[bugguy1967]

If you're looking for power, there's no replacement for displacement. I have a client that I built a 1679 with slip in 88s/machine on head side pistons and cylinders in his 70 Ghia. I thought his car made a lot of power with the 1600 single port, but with the 1.7 ltr, it was super fun, torquey for it's size, and cheap! the engine cost him $1100 for the longblock. Here are the specs:

88 AA pistons (proven reliable)
100 cam
stock rebuilt rods
10/10 stock crank 8 doweled
10 lb flywheel
Santana pulley
rebuilt ported stock valved heads
1 3/8 header with quietpack
8.5:1 compression
Weber 36 IDF or Dell 36 DRLA (can't remember)

To answer your questions, you probably will not notice a difference in bottom end power if you change the cam. If you use 1.4 rockers and the appropriate pushrods you will have more bottom end and a higher powerband. For 5000 rpm, you will not need a C/W crank. The counterweights do not make more torque, but they will rob some power due to the extra weight. Lightening the flywheel makes the engine more sensitive to throttle. It revs faster, but also has some downsides. Engle 100s and 110s love dual throat carbs. Whoever told you that has got to do some more reading.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"

[uncle_fly]

So i bought a seized 1776 longblock today, preliminary examination shows no cracks in the case or heads the main bearing melted due to no oil on the motor, (the external oil filter was loose and drained the motor) i obtained a new stock crankshaft from a buddy, and am gonna do further examination tomorrow, but I'm curious would the Engle 100 be to mild for this motor? Should i use "lube a lobe" lifters or just stock style

[joescoolcustoms]

I have seen some bad things out of the lube-a-lob lifters. I think the idea is great, but the metal is of poor quality. I have a set in one of my engines and I am worried about loosing them, (Installed before I saw a set worn).

I recommend running German lifters or Engle lifters.

For cam choice, a w100 is not too mild. I had a 1835 with 40 X 35.5 heads, dual 40 Dellorto carbs and a stock cam that ran fantastic. I would have sworn it had a larger cam until I tore it apart.

Stock cams make a really good stump puller engines that have great throttle response off idle and with opened up heads/carbs to feed it, will run an engine to 4800 to 5000 RPM.
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Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[D/A/N]

[vwracerdave]

The idea for Lube-A-Lobe lifters cam from V8 engines where the cam is above the crankshaft and the lifters get a lot less oiling. On a VW engine they are not needed because the cam and lifters are below the cranshaft and there is plenty of oiling runoff and splash coming from the crankshaft above.
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