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flyboat Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2010 Posts: 2752 Location: Bath NC
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: Valve Stem Seal or not |
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I have made the Hoover mods. I know I improved oil to the right side and maybe a little to the left. should I run valve stem seals, at least on intake? _________________ 79 super Vert
62 Ragtop Bug
66 tintop Westy
Porsche 914
09 Z06 Vette track car |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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No need
brad |
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Disagree with the late Mr Hoover on this one, but if you do want to try it, read Maverick's thread first:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535812
The VW engine is an 80 year old design, you are going to have to check and top up your oil regularly anyway. _________________ There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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Alpha_Maverick Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2011 Posts: 626
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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If you've also grooved the rockers and shafts, and created a larger channel for oil to come out of the adjuster region of the rocker arm, I would suggest it. *shrugs* to each, his own.
If you do it, get the seal cutter and do it yourself. It's not hard, and you don't have to deal with a machinist that doesn't understand what your goal was/is.
Good luck, either way! _________________
Alstrup wrote: |
hmm well, wiggly I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least. |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Depends. I 'should' have them on my 1915 because the turbo return dumps a lot of oil into the passenger side rocker box, but I don't. Because of this, plugs don't last as long in that side of the engine as they do in the other. But IMO if you still have carbs, you wouldn't know the difference anyway. The whole point of stem seals is to keep oil out of the combustion chamber, so cat converters don't get contaminated and so forth. If you can convert to EFI it makes sense though, because then you'll have much finer control over the fuel and the potential exists to keep the engine squeaky clean for a very long time.
No seals and carbs=a lot of deposits, more frequent rebuilds
Seals and EFI=a much more modern and reliable engine that can run a lot longer between rebuilds, because the carbon deposits aren't causing so much wear to things like cylinder bores, piston skirts, guides, ect. OEM's have long known this, which is why all modern engines now have them. You can argue that a flat engine doesn't really need them because the valves are horizontal instead of vertical, but it's a half truth. It's true that oil does not run down the stem due to gravity, but oil will still be drawn past the intake guide simply because of the vacuum in the intake tract. If you like splitting hairs you can do seals on only the intake valve, and that will give enough of a benefit for you. Because the exhaust nearly always has pressure on it vice vacuum, deposits aren't as much of a problem unless EGT's are excessively high. If high EGT is a problem oil can coke in the guide and cause very fast wear, so in that case a seal may be considered or some means of reducing EGT. _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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flyboat Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2010 Posts: 2752 Location: Bath NC
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input.
I am fortunate enough to have a competent head mechanic in my town. He does nothing but heads, alot of heads.
I am having bigger valves, seats, and new guides installed. I spoke to the machinist doing the work about the seals. He fully understood what I was trying to achieve. So, I haven't made up my mind yet, but thanks for the information _________________ 79 super Vert
62 Ragtop Bug
66 tintop Westy
Porsche 914
09 Z06 Vette track car |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:28 am Post subject: |
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inside the intake port would be my sugestion so the guide sees all the oil it needs, total seal had them for a while, I dont know if they still do or not. I would think a inner groove with a viton oring in the port end of the guide would be good, remember the valve head is upward, not down like most other engines.and the exhaust has pressure&vac on it, but mostly pressure. a teflon lip seal in the end of the guide would also be nice but hard to pull the valve past it. |
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flyboat Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2010 Posts: 2752 Location: Bath NC
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Because my rockers are not drilled to the valve stem end for oil flow, I have decided to not use the seals. My Rockers are 1.5 from CB. However I did make sure the hole in the adjuster lines up with the hole supplying oil to the shaft. _________________ 79 super Vert
62 Ragtop Bug
66 tintop Westy
Porsche 914
09 Z06 Vette track car |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have rockers like that, I drilled mine for tip oiling. |
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flyboat Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2010 Posts: 2752 Location: Bath NC
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
I have rockers like that, I drilled mine for tip oiling. |
I considered that but the backbone is way too thin. Mine are like these
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=870077 _________________ 79 super Vert
62 Ragtop Bug
66 tintop Westy
Porsche 914
09 Z06 Vette track car |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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yup thats them, dont drill the beam, drill just under it with a .062-.080" till you hit bronze(aim it at the tip) you can also do it to the side of the beam not under it, but just to the side.&still aim it at the tip.,then polish&raidi the hole so no stress rizors arize, then drill about .028-.035" through the bronze,(again aimed at the tip ) add a snake oiling grove down the lower part to the other oil hole from the adjuster.do not go across the top(beam side) with the slot, It only needs about a .040 wide&deep groove for oiling.
Ive drilled the rocker with the .035 through the steel but I dont recomend it, it's a bitch to get the broken bit out. |
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