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65 Bus door locks do not work
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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what my problem is... I have 1 65 transporter with door keys that actually turn the lock BUT they don't lock.

You can lock the passenger door from the inside but trying to open it with the key does nothing. You can lock the driver door from the inside but when you close the door it unlocks...

This is starting to make me crazy... Am I missing something?
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fluxcap
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinflynn56 wrote:
Not sure what my problem is... I have 1 65 transporter with door keys that actually turn the lock BUT they don't lock. You can lock the passenger door from the inside but trying to open it with the key does nothing.


The passenger side mechanism on my 66 was like this when I got it. The spring in the mechanism was completely gummed up with some old paint overspray and caked up grease. I removed the mechanism, soaked it in kerosene for a few minutes then hit it with a soft brush and it started moving with ease. Been working great ever since.

kevinflynn56 wrote:
You can lock the driver door from the inside but when you close the door it unlocks...


My 66 is the only bus I've ever had, so I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure this is how they are supposed to work. You can't open the door, lock it with the inside handle and then shut the door. If you are getting out of the bus, you have to lock it from the outside.
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Last edited by fluxcap on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Okay, I took off the panel & took the handle mechanism apart. All parts are moving and I can't see any physical damage... I can lock and unlock the doors using the interior handle.

I then noticed that when I use the door keys to try and lock/unlock the doors the L shaped brass colored part in the above picture (mine isn't brass) doesn't engage anything... It moves freely with the key but it seems too short...

Do I have the wrong locking door handles?

I have a 1965 Transporter/Single Cab
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fluxcap
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the door handles that are sticky, it's the mechanism inside the door! It probably looks like your door handle isn't engaging anything because the part it should be touching on the inner mechanism is stuck down (or up).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sound right but even so, when everything is back in its proper position (Mechanism/handle) when watching the mechanism move, the L shaped piece moves up and down freely with the key but doesn't engage the locking arm to lock/unlock... Its seem too short. It just floats freely

It's baffling and i can only think that I have bug handles instead of bus...

Thanks Eric, you've really helpful! I will clean everything up because it was quite funky!
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it doesn't cog then they are too short. The ones in the picture are about as long as they get. Are yours that long?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinflynn56 wrote:
Not sure what my problem is... I have 1 65 transporter with door keys that actually turn the lock BUT they don't lock.

You can lock the passenger door from the inside but trying to open it with the key does nothing. You can lock the driver door from the inside but when you close the door it unlocks...

This is starting to make me crazy... Am I missing something?


if you lock the door then shut it, it is supposed to be unlocked.
You need to shut the door, then lock it by the inside lever.

It sounds to me that the interface between the outisde handle and the mechinism is not working. are the tang thingys on the ends of the door handle broken off?

try this. open door. manually put tongue of door mech vertical, ie in 'shut' position. press button on door handle. (or is handle off, press in the thing on the mech the handle would press).
Does the tongue jump out energetically? It should.
If it doesn't, the mech needs lube. If you remove the mech and clean and lube and play with it, & see how it works, you will see which part locks it, and how the handle moves that part.

show pics of your actual handles

BarryL wrote:
If it doesn't cog then they are too short. The ones in the picture are about as long as they get. Are yours that long?


Laughing
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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st off THANKS for all the help and advise!

The hockey puck piece does not engage with the workings of the latch mechanism... it just floats.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not the best camera, so I hope the photos are helpful...

I'm going to clean and oil the mechanisms today but again I can see that hockey puck does not engage.
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fluxcap
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you take the inner mechanism out to clean it, snap a pic of it as well. I've got some new door panels I'm going to install tomorrow, I'll see if I can get some pics of my handle/mechanism when I have the door open and maybe we can see what's going on.
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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its pretty difficult to take a decent close up picture...

With the handle and locking mechanism removed and the pieces lined up by hand it becomes apparent that the hockey stick is not only too short to engage, it also lacks the length to engage the up/down backwards C shape that locks & unlocks the piece.

I'll try to get a better photo when I get a 2nd pair of hands...

It's definitely the wrong door handle because the locks work using the inside handles, the outsides don't engage the locks.
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a good replacement locking mechanism for my 66, which was doing the same thing as yours. I found it was the tab that releases the latch was broken off.
I will try to get a couple of photos tonight.
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple of photos I took of the new/used drivers side locking mechanism I just purchased. Yes, I did not clean it yet.
You can see that I am pushing on the arm that releases the latch on the lock.
I took three photos so you can see it in different positions. This is what broke on mine and I could unlock the lock, but not release the door.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

In the locked position.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Unlocked position.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
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Brian
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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANKS! Excellent photo's!

I have GOT to buy a real camera...

I cleaned and lubed both lock mechanisms and couldn't find any physical damage. And because I can lock the doors from the inside I'm fairly certain that the locking mechanisms work and the problem is in the door handle.

Looking at the photo's I posted I can see a definite difference in the Hockey Puck piece that moves the lock/unlock piece up & down...

Now to find the right pair of handles.
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinflynn56 wrote:
THANKS! Excellent photo's!

I have GOT to buy a real camera...

I cleaned and lubed both lock mechanisms and couldn't find any physical damage. And because I can lock the doors from the inside I'm fairly certain that the locking mechanisms work and the problem is in the door handle.

Looking at the photo's I posted I can see a definite difference in the Hockey Puck piece that moves the lock/unlock piece up & down...

Now to find the right pair of handles.


As a test, why not add a piece of pipe/tubing over the tongue and see if it will engage with the locking mechanism. Sure you could find something at a hardware store that could be cut down as needed.
Did you mention the part number on the handles?
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"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
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Brian
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fluxcap
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, I got you a few pics as well.

First is my door handle with a tape measure so you can see if your hockey stick piece sticks out as far as it should. From the edge of my handle, the stick protrudes about 33mm.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Second and third pics are just for clarification. I know you said, the hockey stick was nowhere close to hitting the part that slides up and down, but just want to make sure you are looking for the right place where the hockey stick should be hitting.

When looking from the inside of the door, the part that slides up and down is the kinda half circle part I crappily drew the yellow line by. However, this is NOT what the hockey stick should be hitting, and as you can see in my pic, my hockey stick is not long enough to contact this part either.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The part the hockey stick actually hits can be seen better from the handle side. It hits these two fangs. My hockey stick hangs over these fangs by a good 5 or 6mm, so assuming you have these fangs, you would have to have an incredibly short hockey stick to miss them.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what number is on the L thing at the end of your door handle?
I mean, what letter does it start with. Is it in the form
T1234
or
20L123?

Does the same key fit all your locks?

with the door handle off, if you click the lock mechanism up or down with your finger or a screw driver, does it lock the door?
it should.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just visually guessing, those handles look to have '67 style cams. If all of it is '67 then you should be ok. If you have '67 cams on an earlier lock/pushbutton they will be too short plus they are the weakest cams.

Is this one of what you were thinking, Clara?
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took some more photos this morning for you.
Also took a measurement on the L-shaped wing..Hockey puck is not working for me. Laughing Wink
Anyhow, it measures from the back side to the end of the L at 19.64 mm.
I also pulled out the handle on my 66 and got some part numbers as well as photos of how it works with the lock mechanism. Turns out the push paddle on the old one is what was broken off.
L-wing part number.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

handle part number
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

lock mechanism and handle.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This would be as pushing the handle button in to open.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This would in the closed and locked position.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian
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kevinflynn56
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluxcap wrote:

The part the hockey stick actually hits can be seen better from the handle side. It hits these two fangs. My hockey stick hangs over these fangs by a good 5 or 6mm, so assuming you have these fangs, you would have to have an incredibly short hockey stick to miss them.


EXACTLY I have the fangs but the stick isn't long enough to engage them... If you look at the picture of my 'hockey stick' compared to yours, you'll note that yours is brass colored, longer, has a small right angle brace and the hockey stick extends pasted the housing...

peaceful warrior wrote:

Also took a measurement on the L-shaped wing..Hockey puck is not working for me.


Im calling it a few things that i won't print here either... Crying or Very sad


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

handle part number

My L-shaped wing does not have a parts number stamp

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

lock mechanism and handle.

My part number reads:211837 205 J/M and right underneath that a K/L

Thanks again to everyone - if nothing else, I'm inspired to by a new camera...


Last edited by kevinflynn56 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the L wing from a 68 would be the same. I have a couple of them and will check them out. I can sell you just the wings if they are the same.
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"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian
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