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maxdup
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:34 pm Post subject: undercoating or not after extensive body work restoration |
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Although undercoats do not always look good and can be a pretty filthy to shoot I am still hesitating to go for it. At the same time I don't like the fact of being blinded by the undercoat and not being able to see eventual rust proliferate...
My bus underneath has undergone extensive body repair panel, sandblasting and was painted twice with a PPG epoxy primer. Sincerely I am not sure if an undercoat would be more beneficial than harmful
Any thoughs on this one?
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72 westy under full restoration |
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laughtybus
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 118
Location: Terrell tx
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| If you plan on driving it I say under coat it. I did a bed liner coat it come really close to stock undercoat look an won't chip as easy |
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Use clear Waxoyl everytime for me, I swear by it, I buy a big tin and have one of their pumps to apply it, as well as handy aerosols of it as well, I read on here it is what VW used, after being inspired by the UK dealerships who applied it before the cars left the forecourts. Thousands of old VW and classic car owners use it here in the UK. I assume you have Waxoyl distributors in North America?
Don't use the black Waxoyl, it works just as well, but is used by those who want to hide the condition of the undercarriage!
http://www.hammerite-automotive.com/waxoyl.htm
http://www.hammerite-automotive.com
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury)
Last edited by chimneyfish on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, double post, HTML / bbcode played up for some reason?
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury)
Last edited by chimneyfish on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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no matter what you do, it will need a topcoat. epoxy is great stuff, but it still needs to be topcoated for maximum protection.
if it was me, i would do a wet on wet (one more coat of epoxy and before it kicks, topcoat with a color of your choice)
i would paint the bottom of the bus in a single stage, doing it in base/clear is suicide.
you have gone this far, i would paint it and leave it. years ago, they made a clear rubberized undercoating. the street rod guys loved it, because of the open wheel cars they would build.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51131
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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If I had just spent a bagOcash getting my underside looking that good I'd want to show it off, burying it beneath fresh undercoating screams "hide that hack" (unless you plan on all gravel roads in the salty winter).
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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eche_bus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2007
Posts: 1318
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Doesn't the undercoating on these also serve as a sound deadener? From what I've seen its applied pretty heavily and that suggests strongly it's there for more than just protection from rocks. Large metal panels can conduct a lot of road noise. |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| eche_bus wrote: |
| Doesn't the undercoating on these also serve as a sound deadener? From what I've seen its applied pretty heavily and that suggests strongly it's there for more than just protection from rocks. Large metal panels can conduct a lot of road noise. |
A VW bus does a good job of overwhelming the "noise reduction" aspects of undercoating.
I do an annual rubberized undercoat application after touching it up with any rust-catalyzing primer on little rust nicks. After eight years of applications on the Road Warrior, it was almost self-healing.
Any undercoat (Waxoyl is good stuff) is only as good as the most thorough application. You gotta get over the hidden tops of lines and tubes and blast the undercoating into the crevasses. Then open all drain holes immediately.
Colin
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CoastalAirCooledVW
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2012
Posts: 1882
Location: Mckinleyville, CA (Humboldt County)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| eche_bus wrote: |
| Doesn't the undercoating on these also serve as a sound deadener? From what I've seen its applied pretty heavily and that suggests strongly it's there for more than just protection from rocks. Large metal panels can conduct a lot of road noise. |
I believe that it is only a very minimal sound deadener. I had a car with no carpet, sound deadener, or undercoating. The undercoating I applied did very little if nothing. If you are doing this good of a restoration Im sure you will not cheap out on the sound deadener.
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MsTaboo
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Wayland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2005
Posts: 498
Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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X2. I spray Fluid Film into the door bottoms and rocker cavities on all my vehicles. It is quite amazing stuff, and creeps into all the hidden corners. The only downside (if you care about such things) is that it eventually creeps to the outside and makes an oily looking smudge on your door bottom/rocker. This can easily be wiped off though, so not a big problem. I sometimes deliberately spray it on the outside before a long trip during the winter. Upon returning home all the road grim/salt etc just wipes off. |
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I used a black waxoyl for my undercarriage and the clear for te cavities. The product is from Germany. There only one dealer in the US that sells the true Waxoyl. I beleive it's a Range Rover dealer restorer. The package I got came with a half gallon of clear and half gallon of black plus the guns Amd long wonds for feeding in the cavities. Cost about $500. It doesn't chip, peel, flake... But it does stay waxy and will rub off on you. It holds zero moisture like rubberized products. Stay away from rubberized undercoatings.
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| curtis4085 wrote: |
| Cost about $500 |
$500 
All in, half a gallon of clear Waxoyl, the pressure sprayer and the extension probe will set you back GB £45 here in the UK, that's about US $70:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...;langId=-1
As Curtis says, it is clear and literally it is what it is called, a wax like oil with chemicals added. It stops accumulating rust, inhibits new rust, is totally water repellant, gets in all the nooks and crannies, and because the clear stuff is translucent, you can admire the metalwork, and people can see there is no hack job cover up, unlike using the black stuff or underseal.
Be warned, if welding, it should be cleaned off, as it will ignite from a welding arc.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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curtis4085
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Joined: July 22, 2011
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Location: Colorado
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I stand corrected, I only have the silly pump sprayer and the aerosols for top ups, that professional kit you have bought they use at the garage I go to. For the initial coating they put my bus on the lift and done the underneath and inside the cavities, doors etc, which I'm happy to pay for with it being such a messy job, and you get a much better and thorough job with the bus elevated off the floor. I'm going to get them to do a professional top up this year sometime, it's worth every penny.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
I stand corrected, I only have the silly pump sprayer and the aerosols for top ups, that professional kit you have bought they use at the garage I go to. For the initial coating they put my bus on the lift and done the underneath and inside the cavities, doors etc, which I'm happy to pay for with it being such a messy job, and you get a much better and thorough job with the bus elevated off the floor. I'm going to get them to do a professional top up this year sometime, it's worth every penny. |
The pump kind would work fine if doing just the wheel wells but doing a whole vehicle one would think there arm would fall off with all the pumping needed. 
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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To do it or not do it probably has more to do with where you are and the climate conditions.
You've got some good primer on it so I'd just do a good complete coverage paint job on it and call it good. Once you hide it with other coatings you can't keep it clean and can't easily watch for any problems. Keeping it clean is the key since any kind of buildup of junk is going to hold moisture and start the destructive mess all over again.
Because of the climate mine doesn't and can't stay wet with any moisture. After 15 years my daily driven bug is protected as well as day 1. There are a few small chips where the final paint shows thru to the intact primer but no other concerns.
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
To do it or not do it probably has more to do with where you are and the climate conditions.
You've got some good primer on it so I'd just do a good complete coverage paint job on it and call it good. Once you hide it with other coatings you can't keep it clean and can't easily watch for any problems. Keeping it clean is the key since any kind of buildup of junk is going to hold moisture and start the destructive mess all over again.
Because of the climate mine doesn't and can't stay wet with any moisture. After 15 years my daily driven bug is protected as well as day 1. There are a few small chips where the final paint shows thru to the intact primer but no other concerns.
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Love seeing that Picture. Pure beauty!!
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
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Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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VW porn
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1964 Beetle
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
VW porn |
BAY, even 
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