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Is the under-body propane tank a hazard?
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zippyslug31
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Is the under-body propane tank a hazard? Reply with quote

Having a syncro westy in rocky terrain has always made me wonder how safe that propane tank under the vehicle is. Maybe I'm just paranoid but a tank of explosive gas hanging under a car driven off-road seems to be a recipe for disaster. The guard around the valve/regulator wouldn't take much to deform; a direct hit would likely sheer off the valve allowing a sudden release of propane.

Searched around and only really found some comments in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443751

It's one thing to over-think this sort of thing, and another to dismiss this hazard.... has anybody ever had a real world experience of clobbering this tank with no problems afterward? Anybody have any technical data on exactly what sort of forces it would take to cause a rupture?
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That tank is pretty stout, plus (as I understand it) the explosive power of propane, though considerable, is greatest when it is a gas in a confined space. A leak into the open air (e.g. from a damaged tank) while not harmless is not necessarily an imminent disaster.
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skivan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine was off when i bought the van and now i'm going to put one on the back and replumb for a heater and the stove. i don't like it underneath as a skid plate. on a rear swing-a-way it will work well also for a zodi shower and to hook up the bbq.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skivan wrote:
... i don't like it underneath as a skid plate. on a rear swing-a-way it will work well...


Just an observation -- I don't think I have ever seen a vehicle hit from beneath, but have seen a great many rear-ended.
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joseph928
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: propane tank Reply with quote

Blue Bay Bus I thought about this a lot. Decided to take it out. Put in a TF49 only had a stove to deal with. So went with a 1LB propane bottle in sink cabinet works well . In Moab I would of bashed the old tank, glad I did this! Now my side rock bars will protect both sides, now that the tank is gone.
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NorCalbuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:

Just an observation -- I don't think I have ever seen a vehicle hit from beneath, but have seen a great many rear-ended.


I would agree - I'm not a fan of gas cans or propane on the rear of a vehicle...
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there's a reason to over think this one. I've never heard of a van catching fire due to a propane tank being ruptured from an impact, rocks or otherwise. The valving is protected with the skid plate. 25 years of road use and many millions of miles should be enough to ease your concerns.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think FORD PINTO!

remember the gasoline tank is also under the van. same issue, yet we live with it. I'd not worry too much about it, Of course you could add some extra steel under and around the propane tank for extra security.

Tank on the rear is not a good idea in my opinion. I have been in three pretty bad car crashes, all three of the cars i was driving were totaled, all caused by someone rear ending me.

I have never even dented my under floor gasoline tank, ever.

If I had a flammable gas tank on the rear of either of the three cars that were totaled in a rear end crash, there likely would have been a big fuel leak.

If looks mean anything a rear bumper mounted tank is ugly in my opinon. and is more likely theft prone.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of the 1lb bottle, but mostly for convenience, filling the tank can be a hassle specially if the hardware its not upgraded, that and I never cook in the van, now if you run a propex or such, its more convenient, then again a 20lbs BBQ that can be exchange at a service station or Seven Eleven makes more sense to me.
BTW I have seen a van with a gaping hole in the tank but the van was in the junk yard and it could had been intencional
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Crankey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

while I worked in a blacksmith shop we ran our forge on propane

I was told if we had a leak the gas would flow onto the floor and if it caught on fire it would catch everything else on the floor on fire if it would burn.

we used a big bottle about 4 ft tall. if we ran the forge for a long time it would freeze up on the bottom so we would put our hot parts around the base...agents the ring that is the foot of the bottle to help thaw it out.

it made me a little nervous but I trusted my boss and nothing ever happened. it wasn't like we had huge piles of stuff up agents the bottle...just a few parts.

having said that I'd still be concerned with it. if I had a camper I might be compelled to make an extra guard around the valve.
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rfoubi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are there other smaller, narrower or different shaped tanks that would tuck up along the frame rails out of the way? In particular, to add to a non-westy van? Im thinking of a propex at some point in the future and would prefer something that was less of a dangler than the tanks ive seen on westies.
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skivan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorCalbuggy wrote:
Ahwahnee wrote:

Just an observation -- I don't think I have ever seen a vehicle hit from beneath, but have seen a great many rear-ended.


I would agree - I'm not a fan of gas cans or propane on the rear of a vehicle...


thanks for the input.

i have annoying green bottles plumbed inside now, but haven't installed the heater yet, and no tank on the bottom since i bought it. i'm not buying a new tank to install underneath a syncro and further decrease my clearance, Clarence. Yes, i am that cool that i worry about offroading in my syncro westy.

the good thing is that both my soon to be big propane tank and gas tanks on the back swing away are removable, and carried when necessary.
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Phishman068
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the gas tank on the bottom of the van only exists on a 2wd, which generally don't get offroaded to the same extreme as a syncro. The syncro tank is tucked away nicely!
I removed the tank when I did my westy swap and also used 1lb cylinders. I like them. They last a long time.
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noganav
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could push the propane tank right through the bottom of the van without rupturing it. They are very stout.

The only real worry is tearing the copper lines open while off roading. The lines aren't protected by the skid plate.The safest bet would be just to turn off the propane before going rock crawling.

Definitely having it underneath is safer than putting a tank on the back I'd think.
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indytriple
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to rethink?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=546624

As The Dude would say..."New sh*t has come to light".
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dixoncj
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The TF49 fridge and small propane bottles are in my future. Too risky.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree an all electric modern frig of some kind is way better than the stock Dometic.

BUT, not all applications can get away with 1lb of propane at a time.

We use a combination of (cheap) butane stoves and Jetboils to heat stuff.

BUT, to heat our butts at night you need a serious amount of propane, which I doubt a 1 lb can will do for the duration required by the Propex heater, for example.

How to handle the needs of a heater?????
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
How to handle the needs of a heater?????

eberspacher/espar or webasto gas heater.
VW installed them all the way back to the days of bugs, busses, ghias, fastback etc.
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skivan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

remind me why a refillable internal (larger) tank is bad or illegalish...

would it be so bad to have a 5# tank inside, closed at the valve when not in use or when driving? that would be more convenient than the green bottles for me, and have the capacity for a heater.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skivan wrote:
remind me why a refillable internal (larger) tank is bad or illegalish... would it be so bad to have a 5# tank inside...


Propane leak in a confined space
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