A comprehensive story, entitled "waterboxer"

[chazz79]

Due to the excessive crap littering this board on every discussion involving water boxers I'm listing every pocket bleeding moment of resurecting mine in one place.

This will be a comprehensive rebuild that should not dive into a conversion slug fest, a stainless argument, or even an oil weight bickering match.


Why stay water boxer? I already have a bay window that I converted to 2.3l ford power. It handily woops my vanagons butt in all categories but I'm ok with that. Conversions are nice until you need to remember you used the computor from this model, the intake from that, the throttle linkage from yet another thing...you get the point. I don't want two frankenstein monstrosities around here. Another point is that VW people can be some snobby a-holes when it comes to shows. I go to a few "vw powered vw shows" and I like to park my dung heap of a vanagon square in the middle of it just because the parking is better and it's a big bite me to all the elitest that won't let my bay in because it's a bastard


Meat and potatoes-

@ 8 months ago I bought my vanagon, known issues blown coolant tree, no second gear. Plastic tree installed, started enjoying the ride by just revving the piss out of it from first to third.

two months in the exhaust fell to peices and it turns out most of it was made of the putty and screen crap you buy at the flaps (thanks PO, you're awesome) I cobble in some pipe to mate to a 60.00 stainless muffler bought off amazon. Quiet enough so I kept pressing on.

month after that the coolant pipe from water pump rotted out, put a stainless jobby on there for @120.00 from van-cafe Bought the stainless oil cooler tubes too @65.00 for the pair. Bought these because I noticed the rusty tube by the thermostat was plugged off. Didn't install because PO removed and discarded the oil cooler... should've looked under the van ( I love you PO)

Sunday 11-11-2012 @6pm my 1991 vanagon carat with 245,000 miles started making a rod knocking type sound. Perfect time to get around to all those coolant leaks that these are known for- 2 hours later the engine is on the floor.

Mostly origional (as far as I can tell, all fuel lines etc used compression clamps) Valve covers rusty and leaking oil, push rod tube covers missing/ rotten. Plastic coolant elbow at crossover tube under crank pulley cracked-seeping coolant, its metal counterpart heavily corroded yet holding. Thermostat housing leaking at corroded head union.

Origional german heads (as far as I can tell) casting numbers are 025101375c. This is the worst of the two and it was installed on the passenger side. It has a spark thread insert and looks to have injested something on the combustion side.

Same head combustion side. Large cracks between valves are visible on both heads. Pock marks indicate foreign material injestion, piston has simular damage. Note the corrosion at the outer sealing surface where the water jacket seal lands. Too many strikes against these jokers to think about re-using them. Remarkably the head seals were holding, it was only a matter of time with the way the corrosion was deforming them though.

Engine casting number MV085664 Block appears to be good. No lower end issues at all! Problem is a dead lifter and cam lobe. The engine had to come out anyway to solve all of these issues. The road to reliability is rough to travel, the common way to arrive at this destination is with bloody knuckles and empty pockets.


This build will include
new clutch, water pump, valve covers, stainless exhaust, cam and lifters, and whatever else along with a full list of costs. I aim to have something worth reading at the end. A place where vanagon newbs with turd lust in their eyes can get a reality check before dragging home a "diamond in the rough". I'm all in here-it's time to put lipstick on this pig.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[chazz79]

Still not quite together.

I'm having to drive my bay back and fourth to work through the salt


So I lucked out and my 200.00 junkyard engine had amc heads on it. Pulled those and sent the works to the machine shop for some clean up work along with general sandblasting of all the misc. componenents

Parts cleaned
16 push rod tubes, 16 push rods, case,
Parts machined
flywheel, heads, crank (reused valves from VW heads, amc valves had chunks missing at the stem tips, horrible junk)
Parts blasted
Pulleys, intake, misc braketry, fill tube, valve covers, etc

Total machine shop cost was $370.00

Pistons were pretty pitted on their crowns. Three of them had injested something in there time causing a good amount of damage. The van ran like a top so it is most likely just cosmetic. The liners were perfect, no ridge and you could still see factory cross hatching. My parts engine had better looking pistons so I used them-gifting the p&l set to another samba member that could get some use out of them.

Like most anything in the rust belt you will find deteriorated peices. All 4 intake tubes I sent out had pitting and/or perferation near the end castings.
I brazed them up and left a nice fillet where the tube meets the casting.

Another problem is hardware. Most every allen headed cap screw will be junk. This is a basic mock up of what I have done to date, just to buy new hardware and be ready once the rest of my parts roll in. All sheet metal and brackets were crinkle black powdercoated. The rest is just engine duplicolor high heat paint.

I have added the gowesty thermostat housing since this pic and some other misc doo-dads.

The only thing holding me up is a order placed a week and a half ago to cip1 for some rod bolts and the galley plug kit. Kinda funny how van cafe can take an order on wednesday and get it to me on friday while cip1 can't cross the same distance in a week and a half?

I'm up to 2k with absolutely no performance mods. The only additions are to remove plastic items for increase longevity. P&L set are used as are the rings, everything reinstalled using std sized bearings. New lifters on a good used cam.

So this is my version of cheap as possible.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[Robw_z]

Thanks for the update. I plan on doing a rebuild in this style someday. If it isn't too much trouble a breakdown of costs is always appreciated, I always have cheap rebuild schemes going on in my mind but I know all said and done the reality will be different.

-Rob

[chazz79]

exhaust-
Rmw fange kit, stainless 9.99x4=$39.96
Boeschbuilt header bend kit=$130.00

engine-
Gowesty aluminum valve covers=$29.99
Gowesty thermostat housing=$189.99
vancafe gasket kit=$119.00 victor reinz
vancafe thermostat=24.95
vancafe oil pressure relief spring=$4.70
vancafe thermostat housing cap=$24.75 (no aluminum available at this time)
vancafe oil cooler seal=$2.65 (does not come in the gasket kit)
vancafe thottle body gasket=$5.95 (does not come in gasket kit)
vancafe exhaust head studs .75x8=$6.00
vancafe exhaust nuts copper .35x8=$2.80
vancafe lifters 14.00x8=$112.00
vancafe oil cooler pipe=$26.00
vancafe long oil cooler pipe=$46.00
vancafe oil cooler hose kit=$24.40
vancafe cam bearings=$18.95
vancafe rod bearings std=$14.45
vancafe tune up kit=$92.00
vancafe cam plug=$1.45
vancafe clutch kit=$146.50
cip1 rod bolt set=$19.99
cip1 galley plug kit=$10.95

junk yard 1990 carat vanagon 145,000 miles
Engine $200.00
trans $300.00

local machining
369.15

1889.58
add 100.00 to cover misc bolts, paint..etc

Van cafe has been an excellent vendor, quick to fix any problems (should the arise) There's good reason most of my parts came from them- fast service, better prices, and fat dudes love cookies.

I expect costs to [email protected] more before iget this completed

I refuse to think that you need to be rich to own a vanagon.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[chazz79]

Exhaust parts are in and started as of 1-7-13

RMW took the flange order on 1-4-13 and got them here 1-7...a weekends time.

CIP1's order still hasn't arrived and that one was placed 12-27-12. I'm ready to say it's the first and last time I use them. Acording to the tracking number they provided my stuff is in seattle (I'm in Ohio). Both Van cafe and RMW can cross simular distances in half the time, so why can't CIP1?

RMW's flanges are beefy. The fit is great and I couldn't cut out something as acurate for the ten bucks they charge.

It's going to be a tuned system built by first stretching out the long side, then snaking up the drivers side to equal the length.

My aim is for better than stock. I'm not shooting for anything as nice as GW or RMW produce... a welded system like this will never flow as well as continuous formed cnc bent stuff. All these welds inevitably leave an interior bead that can't be smoothed out.

So far I'm not reinventing the wheel. The passenger side pipes are simular to stock with some relaxed bends. The drivers side will get pretty interesting.

So I'm hoping for something better than dansk, flows better than stockish stuff (GW) and lasts forever. When the bank allows for it I'll just buy RMW's stuff. Stainless welds nice but it's not worth the health risks for a diy'er to try out.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[AdrianC]

[chazz79]

They didn't begin processing the order until 1-2-13. The stuff was ordered at 8am cali time 12-28-12 (had the date rong when I went to look at my recods) It's a package no bigger than my hand. Once those parts arrive it'll be another week before I can get it together. I know it's not their fault that the shipper sees seattle as a valid stop between cali an ohio, but their lameness in getting the order out is.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[chazz79]

Both exhaust manifolds are complete

The pulley side is spot on equal length, the flywheel side needs @14" added to the short side so I'll have to make that up in the y-pipe. It's a tight fit to get anything in there, let alone try to make a tuned system. I'm doing what I can as cheap as possible. If you count gas, rod, and the muffler I already bought awhile ago I'll be at @280.00 and 6 hours in it so far.

My Long pipes measure out at 33 inches. It's a fight to get rest to match that, but I guess that keeps it interesting.

Exhaust may not have alot to with engine rebuilding but it's safe to say most folks will have their stock stuff crumble upon removal. A good engine build gets buried in "While you're at it" costs. While you have it out toss a clutch in it, fix the trans, build an exhaust, paint things up, replace hoses....the list goes on and costs pile up. I suppose if you're keeping it forever it's not a big deal. It's only money, might as well get some use out of it.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[morymob]

Didn't see main brngs on your list??

[chazz79]

My crank mic'd out nice and the mains were reusable. I checked them for roundness and plastigaged the center bearing. All were remarkably unworn with oem vw markings on them. The rods are being resized right now but thats just for peice of mind. The only bearing with wear was the cam bearing right behind its gear.

At this point I could've replaced the mains for an additional 85.00 but I'll scrimp where feasible.

edit-cank machining was just a clean and polish.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster

[chazz79]

The exhaust is finished

It'll get the job done. Better than dansk and that's all I was going for in the first place. I do have @300.00 in this but time is where I lost my savings.

I'll wait until I have it in to make a tail pipe. The injector lines are going away too. I thought it would clean it up a bit but it just complicates things. I really dislike the amount of fuel hose used on this engine. I was hoping someone created a work around for it but I guess that's not a priority. Plastic and four feet of under hood rubber line is a mistake you'd see from the design table.
_________________
One day as a lion, or a lifetime as lamb

The green monster in bits and peices: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332556&highlight=green+monster