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DKKWorm
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Capo Beach, Orange County CA
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 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: What exactly will I need to upgrade 65 Notch Master Cyl? |
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New to the Type 3's. Have'nt had a Type 3 in 35 years. (67 Fastback was my 1st car)
After numerous Type 1's, I am the very pleased new owner of a 65 Notch. Had it a week now, just replaced tie rods, now next is ball joints and upgrading brakes. Will be going to front disk eventually (5x130) but want to change/upgrade master cylinder now to new dual circuit.
What EXACTLY will I need parts wise? Anyone have any idea how I can make ONE trip to the parts store?
Late model master.... ? p/n?
Dual Circuit Reservoir...? what year p/n?
Metal lines from res to master... Can I buy or do I make?
Metal lines from master to fronts .... buy or make?
Main rear line is okay as is?
Part numbers? Suggestions?
What did I miss?
Help...... Thanks |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13271
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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when I did mine in the late 90's, the only thing I was concerned about was that the master worked, as my 65 master did not. I was not concerned about true dual circut functionality with my drums all the way around
All I bought was a 67-69 master and a couple brass plugs for the extra ports. I used the original single resevoir with a T into the two inlets. I ran the existing metal lines to the matching outlets on the master. Added the brake light switch at the port furthest back to the firewall (so the lights would go on just barely tapping the brake). All of the ramaining ports got a brass plug.
I had no issues whatsoever running drums all the way around. If you want one step safer, add a dual resavoir. I didnt.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:49 am Post subject: Re: What exactly will I need to upgrade 65 Notch Master Cyl? |
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| DKKWorm wrote: |
New to the Type 3's. Have'nt had a Type 3 in 35 years. (67 Fastback was my 1st car)
After numerous Type 1's, I am the very pleased new owner of a 65 Notch. Had it a week now, just replaced tie rods, now next is ball joints and upgrading brakes. Will be going to front disk eventually (5x130) but want to change/upgrade master cylinder now to new dual circuit.
What EXACTLY will I need parts wise? Anyone have any idea how I can make ONE trip to the parts store?
Late model master.... ? p/n?
Dual Circuit Reservoir...? what year p/n?
Metal lines from res to master... Can I buy or do I make?
Metal lines from master to fronts .... buy or make?
Main rear line is okay as is?
Part numbers? Suggestions?
What did I miss?
Help...... Thanks |
Since you're planning on eventually going to discs, I'd go with a late dual circuit res, 71 to 73 master cylinder, late (68 to 73) style pedal push rod (it's 15mm longer), 2 brake light switches, 2 meters of blue hose, and a 4 inch longer left front steel brake line. While in there, I'd replace the front hoses (360mm length I think (same as a disc brake car uses from 66 to 73)). Most of this you should be able to get from ISP West, and the Samba classifieds.
You'll have to search for the part numbers, but the res is the same as a bug uses.
The 2 meters of blue hose are to eliminate the steel feed lines, since they're smaller on the single circuit set up. I did most of this on my 64 T-34 Ghia, except I went wide 5 discs. Go to page 56 of the T-34 Ghia link in my signature, to see my pics of how it's all plumbed (along with the wide 5 mod).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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DKKWorm
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Capo Beach, Orange County CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: |
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THAT's what I'm talking about. Excellent information. Thank you Gents. Will run over to ISP and fill my shopping bag. I'm told that while I'm in there and already have em', I could easily swap out the ball joints for new ones.
Great stuff. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| DKKWorm wrote: |
| I'm told that while I'm in there and already have em', I could easily swap out the ball joints for new ones. |
Actually, I'd wait until you install the disc brakes, as you'll be swapping the spindles from drum to disc brake spindles. As that's the absolute best time to do the ball joints, as everything will be apart then. However, IF the existing ones are shot, I'd replace them now.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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DKKWorm
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Capo Beach, Orange County CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Good idea. Thanks again. |
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GearheadJim
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2003
Posts: 178
Location: Columbus Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm working on this same conversion and have a couple clarifying questions:
- Do you have to switch to the later push rod or is it possible to simply adjust the original push rod to get the needed extra length?
- For the dual reservoir, I've seen a couple different styles. I think the version shown below will fit in the existing early (65) bracket. Can anyone confirm that is correct? Is that '67 only?
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Drive 'em!
65 Notchback build: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773405 |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| GearheadJim wrote: |
I'm working on this same conversion and have a couple clarifying questions:
- Do you have to switch to the later push rod or is it possible to simply adjust the original push rod to get the needed extra length?
- For the dual reservoir, I've seen a couple different styles. I think the version shown below will fit in the existing early (65) bracket. Can anyone confirm that is correct? Is that '67 only?
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I don't think the early rod is long enough which is why a swap is needed.
The photo is of a 67 only and would work. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| GearheadJim wrote: |
I'm working on this same conversion and have a couple clarifying questions:
- Do you have to switch to the later push rod or is it possible to simply adjust the original push rod to get the needed extra length?
- For the dual reservoir, I've seen a couple different styles. I think the version shown below will fit in the existing early (65) bracket. Can anyone confirm that is correct? Is that '67 only?
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Here's 2 shots of the pedal push rod, showing the length differences.
While that res could work, keep in mind that it's lines will be smaller in diameter (7 vs 8mm) when you get to the master cylinder end. That's why I had suggested using the later style unit (the fittings all stay the same size). To mount it, you'll straighten the strap out some, and add a longer screw with a spacer to hold it in place. You'll also need to add a 2nd hole for the blue hose to pass thru the sheetmetal.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13271
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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I actually did not change the rod at all when I went from 65 single to 67-69 dual master. Right or wrong, I didn't change it and my brakes worked great. I'd trust Bob on this though
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