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Fiberglass work questions
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drs1023
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Fiberglass work questions Reply with quote

For those of you who have done and can do fiberglass work, I have a question. Is fiberglass body repair work more art or science? I ask this question because, although I have worked with air-cooled VW's since 1969, have owned 57 of them, and have built 4 kit cars - all from new kits for other people (I also built a dune buggy for myself from a new kit), I have never been good at body work on sheet metal, and have NEVER attempted fiberglass work at all.

The reason for my question is that I have a chance to buy a fully assembled, non-running, stored outside 10 years, rough looking Tuff-Tub for a few hundred bucks. Tail lights and bumpers are missing, but that isn't a show stopper. I'm adept at repairs on the engine, transaxle, wiring, suspension, steering, etc. But the body is ROUGH! - as in feels bumpy to the touch rough, cracks here and there rough, some smaller chunks missing rough.

I like the full pan length because my grandchildren really like riding in my woods buggy which has 4 seats, but because it's so open down the sides, I don't ride them on the open road in it - even if I am the one to buckle their seat belts. Here's the woods buggy, so you see what I mean.

I am not asking anyone to "teach" me fiberglass repair, just offer your comments on how hard it is to become fairly good at it.

Thanx
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its that rough now, its likely it was badly made originally, either bad resin, incorrectly mixed resin or badly laid up. Fiberglass can be amazingly strong but it doesn't tolerate poor quality manufacture at all.

If you look at it and underneath the abuse it looks like crap, it probably is.
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiberglass is probably the easiest thing you'll work with IF you pay attention to a few things. Less resin makes stronger panels, you just want enough to soak the glass mat, not drown it. Spider cracks HAVE to be ground out down to the base mat or else they will come back. When laying new glass over old grind the old mat down about half way and make sure it is clean, use acetone. New repairs WILL shrink back for several months as the resin and fillers cure, so DON'T paint your car right away, let it sit, and then refill the "shadows" I know of lots of guys who paint newly fixed bodies an a year later they look like a patchwork quilt. WEAR GLOVES GOGGLES AND A MASK OR RESPIRATOR when sanding fiberglass, you do not want to breath that crap in. Also wear long pants and long sleeved shirt. I tape mine at the cuffs. Or, just by cheap disposable coveralls for bodymen, you'll still itch for days but won't be as bad. When it's time to clean up, take a cold shower at first. This keeps your pores from opening up and letting the 'glass dust in even more.

If you can think it up you can pretty much make it or repair it. I like working with 'glass. I'm by no means an expert, but I've gotten very good results building my cars.

brad
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drs1023
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great - I'm learning already. Shrinkage, grinding past the crack - all good info. With more encouragement like this, I may pull the trigger on that Tuff Tub yet.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiber glass is easy to work, if you understand the science..... Much written on i-net so any place you look there will be good ideas and bad... And yes its a art also...

What works for me and as others may have said....

Always grind down to fresh material and surfaces that you are going to repair and feather edge out repair area....

You can back up most repairs ( large holes/cracks) with most anything the resin will not stick to and remove it later once resin and cloth initially cure...

Any repairs on body should be resin/cloth layups.. Have had some comparability issues using plastic body fillers (Bondo) over glass, so avoid it as much as possible.... Seems plastic body fillers will shrink when used on glass for some odd reason...

Most any tools that will work metal or wood will work glass....

Big cracks can be repaired by maybe adding "temporary " wood blocks and screwing crack/rip together till you can get enough glass in place to "hold" repair solidly..... I usually start repair buildup on NON finished side and build for strength where repair is not visible and then finish exterior where all you sanding and finish work will happen...

When doing resin, member it is chemical reaction thing and there is a time issue... Read and respect mix directions according to air TEMPERATURE... A hot mix can go off with excess heat and smoke... A cool mix may take days to cure... IF resin mix is starting to "jelly up" (get thick) in mix pot, your done with that batch.....

Put down floor protection, as dripped resin in miserable to clean off cement floors and driveways.... You will have little hard drip/bumps there forever until they are ground off by you or traffic....

All tools and and clothing should be disposable.... Once resin cure on something its done, in cloth its there for ever on metal tools you can clean them but its a real pain..... Use disposable brushes and squeegee paddles and stir sticks and always have acetone (cleaner/thinner) can lid loose and a can handy so you can put tools in acetone to thin/stop resin reaction to salvage tools....

As mentioned above, sanding is a pain and nasty, always protect yourself with long sleeved clothes and respirator..... Work outdoors and much as possible and dust will eventually coat everything in shop when sanding.....

Also VENTILATION, do not do any glass/resin work in closed shop space, fumes off resin reaction will cause you respiratory distress....

After all the above it really sounds dangerous and nasty, well it can be if you do not work smart and understand materials you are working with.... But work smart and pay attention to details and you will be rewarded..... Always member any blemish in the glass from the primary glass work will show up as big as a house under finish color coat...

Dale
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drs1023
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned earlier, there is a roughness to the finish that appears that some deterioration has occured - looks like rust jacking on metal surfaces. #1 - is this really deterioration of the glass? and #2 - will that require skim coating? This body appears to be the original gold metal flake. The owner doesn't know, but it is the same light gold color (and has the Mason and Shrine emblems) as a Yaarab Temple in north Atlanta - some 65 miles south of me. I'm sure I can patch the holes where the emblems are.

There are also too many holes in the dash. Probably had extra light switches, etc. for flashing or strobe lights as parade buggies sometimes have. 1 missing 2" gage, so more patching required.

The engine is locked up as is the spare parts engine which is also laying out in the yard. I'm sure water had eaten some of the magnesium out of that one.
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VolkswagenGerry
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiberglass work is an art and a science.. more like chemistry,
Like mentioned before its just a matter of understanding it.

I'm at the point where I just "know" how much to mix how much hardener to use depending on what I want it to do.. how long I want to work with it and how big the repair or part I am fabricating.

This comes with mixing many "wrong batches" that kick before I'm even close to done or just take forever to cure..

Ive had to "abort" many repairs and start over..
Its definitely good to experience what can go wrong so you can avoid it in the future rather than getting your head bent about the protocol of a particular job... I say just go for it the basics are basic and soon you will be doing things with fiberglass you thought only an elite few could do..

My background with glass is from surfboard repair and fabrication, and trust me surfboards are allot less forgiving than a chopped glass buggy.

Start with the small holes then work to bigger ones.. (holes are easy)
Prep work is 90% of a good repair
Grind or sand into fresh glass... fill with (cloth, mat, shredded glass, cab-o-sil, microspheers, resin) and remember masking tape is your friend.

If you have any specific questions feel free to message me..
There are also allot of great step by step videos on you tube


Link


I think this is overkill and sort of a way to get you to buy stuff not necessary for a repair like this.. like the plastic sheet and what not..
However it is still a very comprehensive video
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The roughness sounds like the gelcoat starting to break down. you can sand it smooth and topcoat it with primer made for fiberglass. It sounds like there is a lot of holes and repairs so re-gelcoating is probably not an option for you but it can be done. If your dash is warped at all it can be straightened by cutting reliefs in the back of the dash about half way through. then screw some 3/4" plywood to the front of the dash (coated in plastic or wax paper between wood and dash and lay up a few layers of mat on the back of the dash for strength. then oyu can feather out the holes in the dash and lay up mat to cover those from the outside. I like to use marglass for major fills as I feel it moves around at about hte same rate as mat. I only use plastic filler for skim coats for final finish.

brad
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mobjack68
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:14 am    Post subject: glasswerks Reply with quote

Baby Powder....Use Baby Powder...
If you will be grinding or dry sanding (block/scratching for adhesion) rub baby powder on all skin that might be exposed.
Advice above is great about taping sleeves, etc. Don't forget the face/neck/tops of feet (sandals) when taking the baby powder bath...
the powder "clogs" the pores and skin imperfections making it harder for the glass to take hold and make a nest...
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didget69
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can also roll or shoot new gelcoat over properly repaired/prepared f-glass. Vince in NC has some good info on this - he has sprayed and rolled on gelcoat onto old buggy bodies after repairing them.

You'll also get into many debates on using polyester resin vs. epoxy resin on your repairs. I use poly on bodies originally made with poly resin.

bryan
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