Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
'76 Pop top alignment problems
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
highlandmurf
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
highlandmurf is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

Working on my Pop top and tent, and wondering about some alignment issues that I have been having.

My top is very tight across the back. So much so that it has cracked under the pressure of being squeezed against the roof.

Also, a friend of mine mentioned that mine is much harder to close than his '77.

Lastly, the front passenger side of the pop top, has always sat proud of the luggage rack in the closed position.

Here is a random pic of the passenger side before it was disassembled . It is tough to see, but in the locked position, there is about a 1/2" gap where the seal meets the luggage rack.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the crack, before repair:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


When raised, I have an even 4 1/2" across from the gutter to the top.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As it closes it bears down on the tin top in the back. Here you can see my repair trying to open up as well:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And the drivers side:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Sides:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The PO put some foam tape on the bed hinges. The top seems to want to pivot on this point, in its last few inches of travel into the locked position.

Here you can make out the dark spot on the inner top, where it hits the black foam tape:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


To my eye, it seems like it would need to be shimmed up 1/2" to 3/4" between the rear hinges ant the top.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So, what do you all think? I straightened out the rear hinges. they were bent slightly laterally, but not by much. They are in pretty good shape.
_________________
1976 Westy Marigold Yellow
2.0 stock FI
My M-Plate


Last edited by highlandmurf on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drober23
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2009
Posts: 787
Location: Detroit, MI
drober23 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two styles of hinge for the late pop-tops. Are both of yours the same? Can you get us a closeup of the full hinge from the outside?

Also, did you just remove the seal for the pictures? Or have you been running without the seal that goes on the bottom of the fiberglass? I suspect the seal might protect the fiberglass a bit from spreading like yours did. But you seem to have an alignment problem with the top.
_________________
DJ

'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe, and some others...
(more busses than sense)

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
highlandmurf
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
highlandmurf is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The seal was removed in order to refurb the top.

I was unaware that the there were two late bay hinge types. Mine is an early '76. When did they change?

Any one got pics of the two types?

I will add a pic of my hinges when I get back to my laptop.
_________________
1976 Westy Marigold Yellow
2.0 stock FI
My M-Plate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
werksberg
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 2083
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
werksberg is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any adjustment in the lower mounting of thew pop top hinges too? If not...maybe slot them a little to move the whole top back a little?
_________________
Werksberg Products....Products that work!

Follow my new products on my Facebook Werks Berg
Click the below ADs link for products & feedback.
Search "werksberg" on Photobucket for products photos & Please remember to buy "American made products!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ruffturn
Samba Member


Joined: June 16, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: Central FL
Ruffturn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have any idea of a solution, but since I'm looking at getting a bus just like that one (76 westy), did the problem only occur after you started to change the fabric?
_________________
72 Baja lookin' Super

Everything is ultimately relative.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
highlandmurf
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
highlandmurf is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a good look at the roof again earlier. Unfortunately I forgot to get some hinge pics. As far as I can see the only difference in late bay pop top hinges are the '73 which is still a front facing top, and the 74-79 hinge. Is this correct?

To answer a few questions:

The top has been a little out of wack since I have owned it, but this is the first time I have really taken a good look at it.

The hinges are back as far as they can go. If I opened up the slots for the bolts, I would not be able to get the front latch to adjust much more.
_________________
1976 Westy Marigold Yellow
2.0 stock FI
My M-Plate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
highlandmurf
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
highlandmurf is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, Started getting this project buttoned up. Still have had no success getting the top to seat any better.

Finally got some pics of the hinges:

Drivers side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





Passenger side:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I shimmed the hinge up with some 1/2" plywood, but I think it is still resting on the back not on the hinge. I can not shim any more, because I may not have any more slack in the tent.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I was thinking of clamping a bolt and some washers together at the front of the hinge track in order to get the hinge to stop and raise at the end of it's motion.
This will take some experimenting, and I am uncertain weather it would work at all.

If anything jumps out at anyone, let me know. The top does not appear to be warped in any direction too badly, just slightly racked where the passenger side sticks up at the luggage rack. I would like to eliminate that gap, and the probability that the rear corner will crack again.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Thanks
_________________
1976 Westy Marigold Yellow
2.0 stock FI
My M-Plate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
aerosurfer
Samba Member


Joined: March 25, 2012
Posts: 1597
Location: Indianapolis, IN
aerosurfer is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hijack alert......

In your first picture, do you have something above your license plate pushing against the spare? I assume this is to help dampen any movement? Any more pics?
_________________
Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pgtips
Samba Member


Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 725
Location: essex
pgtips is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, mad, I just posted an exact same Q about my pop top bow, I've just repaired bent brackets.

Has your wood shim helped, it must have I guess.?

I plan to raise mine under the other bracket to lift the whole unit up a bit.

I tried moving it forward and/or back (the whole roof section) but that affects the pop down latch which is very difficult to adjust so had to revert back. There's not much else I can see you can do after shims but you have a bit of flexibility because you can loosen up the rear fabric but its a pain.
_________________
1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy w LPG conversion - Subaru auto -completed
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift

Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
highlandmurf
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
highlandmurf is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "thing" above the license plate is another license plate:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The shims really did not do anything, as the top is still resting on the back of the tin top so that there is no pressure on the hinge when it is closed.

I tried putting a shim between the plywood of the bed, and the top and pulling down hard on the handle to lock the top. The rear did not lift at all.

I will be taking the shims out, as all they are doing is giving me less space to staple the back of the tent.

And the verdict is that "it is what it is". I can't see any way of improving the look or function without getting new hinges or another top.
_________________
1976 Westy Marigold Yellow
2.0 stock FI
My M-Plate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore


Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
Stuartzickefoose is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i vote you try to slide the passenger side toward the back of the bus by loosening the bolts on the rear hinge, and slide the drive side forward a bit. basically rotating the top a tiny tiny bit clockwise if looking straight down on the top from the air.
_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
xoo00oox
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2048
Location: East Nassau, NY
xoo00oox is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Just for comparison, here is a Vanagon Westy hinge
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




And these are the one we make for the new Country Homes Campers roof
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pgtips
Samba Member


Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 725
Location: essex
pgtips is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"highlandmurf"
The shims really did not do anything, as the top is still resting on the back of the tin top so that there is no pressure on the hinge when it is closed.
And the verdict is that "it is what it is".


thanks for the heads up, I can see the problem, the hinge takes up any raise but doesn't alter the way the top sits on the roof.

I'll have a go with shimming under the arm where it bolts to the roof but I doubt it will work, easy to have a stab and see though.

I guess in theory if the back of the pop top roof was 'packed out (rolled towels or something) it would hold it up/away from the roof without any effect on the roofs operation.

Maybe thats the way I go with it.

PG
_________________
1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy w LPG conversion - Subaru auto -completed
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift

Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwwestyman
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 4392
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
vwwestyman is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

Kind of an old thread, but was there ever any success? Or anyone else following along have any ideas?

My top has the same problem with a rear corner pushing on the body and cracking.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Dave Cook
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
I'm gonna punch vwwestyman then shake his hand when I meet him.

notchboy wrote:
Ill just punch you in the face. Wink

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing
www.thefosterdads.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pgtips
Samba Member


Joined: July 23, 2009
Posts: 725
Location: essex
pgtips is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

never really solved it, its just what it is.

You might find the bottom rubber strip around the bottom (which I couldn't see on your roof) will stop so much vibration through the roof i.e less cracking.

PG
_________________
1975 1.8l FI Auto Westy w LPG conversion - Subaru auto -completed
1971 356 kit 1600 TP - semi/stickshift
1971 1302 LS - semi/stickshift

Trim ring info here -> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559668
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=451210
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479721
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwwestyman
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 4392
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
vwwestyman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

I hope so. I'm prepping to paint the top so no rubber is installed. Actually the rubber has been gone for a long time so that may have contributed to the cracking.

I fiberglassed over and behind the crack last night. I took one strip of the fiiberglass mat and folded it up and behind. I filled the crack with a bunched up strand of the fiberglass and resin rather than trying to push it together and make it stay together. I'm hopeful that keeping it in the expanded state will not add stress to the crack, making it want to reopen.
_________________
Dave Cook
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
I'm gonna punch vwwestyman then shake his hand when I meet him.

notchboy wrote:
Ill just punch you in the face. Wink

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing
www.thefosterdads.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rapturee
Samba Member


Joined: January 19, 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Northern Idaho
Rapturee is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

Hello All. I too am having a similar problem with my 72' i purchased and am working on. My situation is a little different though. The PO had a family reunion and allowed a couple of kids to stay in it, they then failed to secure the top when they were done. And of course, as things would would sometimes happen, the next really bad wind storm ripped the top completely off and landed it in the next door neighbors yard! So, i have two badly bent/broken front hinges that i need to replace or attempt to rebuild/repair. Any suggestions for an aftermarket pair? Thanks! :{)
_________________
'00 TDI Beetle- "stink bug"
'72 Westy-"SOLD"

"Integrity & Honor"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Xevin
Samba Member


Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 3970

Xevin is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

If you should need.


http://www.buttysbits.com/westfalia-parts.html
_________________
Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

Clatter wrote:
Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Abscate wrote:
I dont hate anyone on the Samba - except for Xevin - who brought me cold coffee in the morning.

[email protected] wrote:
I respect Xevin and he's a turd Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rapturee
Samba Member


Joined: January 19, 2016
Posts: 3
Location: Northern Idaho
Rapturee is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: '76 Pop top alignment problems Reply with quote

Thanks Xevin... :{)
_________________
'00 TDI Beetle- "stink bug"
'72 Westy-"SOLD"

"Integrity & Honor"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB