Need advise on torsion bar cover plate

ludsbug

Own a '63 Bug. While torquing the bolts on the torsion bar cover plate (info I had, specified 80 ft lbs) one of the bolts snapped off. In photo, broken bolt is in the upper right. I have thought of drilling out the broken bolt and use a nut and bolt solution. Good or bad idea? And what torque should I be applying for the four bolts on the torsion bar cover plate?

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drscope · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject:

Bad Idea!

Since it is an open hole to the back there shouldn't be a lot of pressure on the threads of the bolt. You may actually be able to take a small punch and gently tap it to rotate out.

Or get your dremil tool out and cut a small slot in the end and use a screwdriver to unscrew it.

If it's really stuck, place a nut over it and use a Mig welder to weld through the center of the nut to the broken piece and then use a wrench to turn it out.

You could also drill it with a smaller drill then it's diameter and use an easy out. Just DON'T break the easy out off in the broken off bolt!
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ludsbug · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject:

Good ideas; however, the bolt head was being torque to 80 ft lbs( which I read to be correct)when it snapped off. Do you know the proper torque for these bolts? I have decided to try and drill the remaining bolt out and hopefully not ruin the threads. Not much room even with the fender off.

drscope · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject:

When the head of the bolt breaks off ALL the stress and stretch on the threads is GONE! Its when the head stops and you keep turning that the head pulls the threads out towards you.

Once the head breaks off, there is nothing keeping the threads in tension.

If it was a blind hole where the bolt bottomed out it would be different. But on an open hole like this with no bolt head there is nothing to keep the threads tight. It should come out pretty easy.

If the fender is in the way TAKE IT OFF! Its only held on with a couple bolts. Only takes a few minutes to move it out of your way.
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Boom · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject:

80 lbs is way too much. I wouldn't worry about torque as much as just getting it tight. Heres a chart for max torque on all sizes you will likely run into on a bug. http://www.dansmc.com/torque_chart.htm
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Boom · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject:

I figured out what you read was for the spring plate bolt. It's at 80.
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ludsbug · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject:

I believe as you now, but this what I was reading:
Once you have tightened the cover as far as it will go with the two longer bolts, put two normal bolts into the other two holes and tighten them to 80 ft-lbs before removing the longer bolts and replacing them with the normal ones. There is some tension on the cover plate, and this process will ensure you can get the threads started. This way the cover plate is held aligned to the threaded holes by at least two bolts at all times.

slalombuggy · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 pm Post subject:

Is it just me or does the head of the bolt in the picture have SAE grade markings on it???? Did someone retap the holes or are you installing imperial hardware instead of metric???? Should be 10mm bolts not 3/8"

brad

ludsbug · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:33 am Post subject:

Correct, 10mm bolt. Problem now is removing bolt without head. Nothing to grab onto. Fender is off so hope to be able to drill out remaining bolt. Have thought about drilling a new hole for a nut and bolt setup.

roadkingdoc · Samba Member Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 911

if it is the upper right bolt of the spring plate,be careful about drilling it out for nut and bolt because i dont think you have much room behind the plate to place a nut or a bolt. i would drill it out with a right handed bit centered. good luck

drscope · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:49 am Post subject:

DON'T drill it for a nut & bolt! Do it RIGHT and get the broken piece out. Its going to be easier then you think!
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panicman · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:15 am Post subject:

I am with the good doc- if you were just installing the bolt, you know it is not frozen in place. it should come out without having too much of an issue.

I would go for the right handed drill technique, or use a titanium bit to drill a pilot for an easy out. If the easy out won't budge with medium hand pressure, give it up so as not to break the easy out and add an issue. Worst case scenario would be to fail with the rh bits, and have to carefully drill the bolt out. If you do well, you can clean the threads up with the correct tap. If you fudge, you can tap to the next metric size up.

Is there a chance you somehow cross threaded, or used an SAE bolt? That broken bolt should turn freely in the threaded hole. SAE threads are different than metric, no matter the head size.
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Michael Fischer · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:27 am Post subject:

Pop that cover off. Take a small punch tap it straight into the bolt a bit off center. Then angle the punch and tap in the same spot some more. If you do it right you should be able to get it to spin and slowly work it out till you can get vice grips on it.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:10 am Post subject:

metalchomper · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject:

I agree with Brad. Looks like SAE bolt.

If you remove the cover plate and bushing you can weld a nut onto the end of the broken bolt and remove with a wrench.
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ludsbug · Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject:

Resolved the situation. As usual, Samba folks came to the aid! Will finish bolting things up and hopefully my indexing works out.

drscope · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:52 am Post subject:

So how did you "resolve" the situation?
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ludsbug · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:48 pm Post subject:

After using a few 'choice words', I drilled out the broken bolt hoping to leave as much of the threads as possible. Some oif the threads remained, but not enough to tighten a bolt. Fender was off, but prior work to the body made things tight for thinking about using a tap and die. Replaced the bolt with a new bolt and nut setup. I know it ain't 'kosher', but the one reason I love a Bug is they are forgivable and appreciate anything we can do to keep them on the road. Test drive proved out OK! Buggy is sitting as I want her--all is well! Thanks for your input.

hemifalcon · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:52 pm Post subject:

...hmmm... had a bad idea.. and you were receiving good ideas.. you went ahead and used your bad idea..

Good job everyone on offering your advice--but he hacked it instead.. Confused

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VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:33 am Post subject:

The owner couldn't get the broken bolt out cleanly, threads in the chassis for a simple cover were weak / damaged, unknown....... and questionable..

The chassis is junk.. better get a new chassis... Confused

Bolt and nut to hold a cover....Bad idea .... Really??

I disagree..

As an alternative, using good quality fasteners, there is not anything wrong with the repair process that was performed.
Even using SAE hardware...
Cheaper and more readily available than a helicoil or insert kit too.

Good job...
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