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jall2n52 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2012 Posts: 2 Location: az
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:59 am Post subject: Ignition Switch Alternative |
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Being sick of replacing Ignition Switches has anyone replaced with a toggle switch and a start button? |
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yardbug Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 156 Location: Raymore, MO
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure someone has done it in the past. Sounds like you might have a different issue. Ignition switches don't go out with every oil change. _________________ '69 Tintop T2 - '86 Syncro - '87 Westy - '02 337 GTI - '99 4Runner - '13 4Runner |
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jall2n52 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2012 Posts: 2 Location: az
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:06 am Post subject: yard bug |
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suggestions? |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: |
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I have a Vanagon Syncro with all brand new wiring.
I used Painless wiring harnesses and the start function is wired to a momentary push button switch.
Just as I wire up race cars.
Working perfectly |
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yardbug Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 156 Location: Raymore, MO
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
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You might check the plug behind the switch. What year vanagon _________________ '69 Tintop T2 - '86 Syncro - '87 Westy - '02 337 GTI - '99 4Runner - '13 4Runner |
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BillM Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 1381 Location: Stonington,CT
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Are you using a good quality replacement? There are cheap ones out
there that don't last.
Do you have any wiring changes like your radio hooked to
the key in buzzer circuit?
While they do wear out and fail it shouldn't need to be replaced
that often. Do you have a pound of keys hanging from you
key chain?
I also wonder if the portion your key goes in is somehow messed
up causing the electrical part to fail prematurely. _________________ Bill M
87 Westy |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:49 am Post subject: |
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A couple years ago I fixed the ignition on one where the problem seemed to be the ignition switch but turned out to be that wear was preventing the little pin that turns the switch from moving the correct amount. |
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Jedi Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2007 Posts: 734 Location: Cool California
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I have had the same issue in the past on one of my syncro's. I replaced 3 ignition switches till I noticed that the little switch was over worn and needed to be replaced. Good thing is the part is cheap enough you can carry a spare in your parts box _________________ 1961 Westfalia SO23 Mango Green/Seagull grey
1961 Westfalia SO34 T/BW
1961 Westfalia SO34 SWR
1964 Westfalia SO33 pearl white
1965 Westfalia SO42 Velvet green
1986 Syncro Wolfram grey with black int GL
1986 Syncro Doka
1987 Syncro Sevana beige Adventurewagen
1987 syncro Sevana beige GL
1973 Pumpkin orange Thing
2 1963 Rag top bug's
1965 Manx
1970 Single cab
1971 combi
1990 Vanagon GL
2007 Audi A4 3.2L quattro |
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pushkick Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007 Posts: 1366
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: what pin? |
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Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
A couple years ago I fixed the ignition on one where the problem seemed to be the ignition switch but turned out to be that wear was preventing the little pin that turns the switch from moving the correct amount. |
what pin are you talking about? got a pic _________________ i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper |
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Syncroincity Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: New York City
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a pic. If you pull an ignition switch and look at what actuates it you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
FWIW, I believe that the 'too many keys' idea is a myth at least WRT VW ignition lock cylinders. The excessive keys may cause extra wear to the lock cylinder but considering the way it engages the ignition switch I do not believe that extra weight can transfer to damaging the switch itself. Kinda like the way folks think that the clutch master and slave failures are related, which they aren't. |
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pushkick Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2007 Posts: 1366
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: ignition switch issues |
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i guess the best way is to unplug the connector and plug in replacement switch and try to turn with screw driver and see how it works. if it works fine i guess its the pin that is causing the problem. will try this and see what i find out. thanks for the help. _________________ i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1890 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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here's a pic (made by David B.) of the electrical parts of the switch. Just to add to the general conversation.
alistair
_________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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The pounds of keys thing is no myth.
That same lock was used on jillions of VWs.
So many girls came so many times with ignition issues and, almost, with out fail they had tonnage hanging on their key rings.
There may even be a TSB about it.
While you may not have caused it the PO may have.
Excessive play in the pin caused by the plastic bushing being worn will screw up the contacts in the switch. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: ignition switch issues |
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pushkick wrote: |
i guess the best way is to unplug the connector and plug in replacement switch and try to turn with screw driver and see how it works. if it works fine i guess its the pin that is causing the problem. will try this and see what i find out. thanks for the help. |
how about if you unplug the connector and then short some wires together in the connector itself - which ones do you connect? _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the procedure to crank the starter via the ignition switch socket. I copied this from a post a while back and can't remember who originally wrote it at this point. Anyway, here goes.......
Ignition Switch Bypass - Jumper Wire Starting Method:
Remove the plastic cover from the steering column and pull the black socket off the bottom of the ignition switch.
Insert a jumper wire between the large red wire and the solid black wire (a bent paper clip works well, but will get hot, so be careful). You should hear the fuel pump run at this point.
If you hear the fuel pump, leave the first jumper (large red to black) in place and insert another jumper wire between the large red wire and the red/white wire. This is your starter wire.
The engine should turn over at this point. If the engine starts, remove the big red to red/white jumper wire immediately. If you don't remove this jumper, the starter will continue to run just like holding the key in the start position.
This is essentially how to hotwire a Vanagon, but since the ignition steering lock is still in place, you can easily defeat any would be Vanagon heist by leaving the wheels turned into the curb when you park... _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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geo_tonz Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2012 Posts: 1472 Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:41 am Post subject: |
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...and bookmarked! Thanks Jay, I was looking for that proceedure a while back!
To the op: you might consider a hard start and headlight relay kit like Jay makes to greatly reduce the amps that regularly flow throught that piddly plastic switch. Plus gain brighter lights, better cranking power and potentially preserve your headlight switch. Maybe it'd help with your ignition switch consumtion as well in reducing the load to that part. _________________ ---------------------------------------------------
"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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r39o wrote: |
The pounds of keys thing is no myth.
That same lock was used on jillions of VWs.
So many girls came so many times with ignition issues and, almost, with out fail they had tonnage hanging on their key rings.
There may even be a TSB about it.
While you may not have caused it the PO may have.
Excessive play in the pin caused by the plastic bushing being worn will screw up the contacts in the switch. |
Yep...same story over in MB-land _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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I believe it with the design of the older Merz ignition lock assemblies. I don't believe it with the design of the VW ones. The wear on the VW lock cylinder itself would have to be beyond the point that would keep the key from turning prior to actually causing the electrical part to fail.
Last edited by ?Waldo? on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jahbah Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2011 Posts: 299 Location: McMenaminville, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Great timing.
At Syncro de mayo we had a very long group discussion about van fires. The guys doing the talking cover this switch as a fire hazard. There are two big wires running up and down your steering column, one feeds the switch the other goes to the starter. Apparently when you hear stories of vans randomly catching fire, starting themselves and driving into houses THIS is the source. The switch shorts out and starts a fire and also melts these wires together. I bought a momentary starter switch with plans to install it. I want to use the key as a "switch" to turn the van on and energize the start button. The goal is to prevent the van from having this possible short problem. Any how to pointers from people that have already done this?
Jay "thatvwbusguy" makes some really user friendly kits. I have the headlight relay and the hard start relay. Super helpful. _________________ '87 Westfalia Weekender + '86 Syncro Tintop +'02 Impreza 2.5RS
= '86.5 SuperWestySyncroSubyWeekendermobileagon =
Bueno.
Jahbah~D |
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