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gcarver
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2013
Posts: 254
Location: Murrieta, Ca
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 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:11 am Post subject: Oversize Cooling Fan...Should I??? |
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Guys, I have a 1600 DP Type 1 with Doghouse shroud. The cooling fan in the shroud measures approx 1-1/4 inches (propellors).
J.C. Whitney is advertising a 1-1/2 inch fan and promises a major increase in cooling power...and it is like $40. My engine is out of the car so this would be an easy replacement.
Is this a waste of time and money...is it a marginal fix...or is it super duper? |
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johnR
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 668
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: |
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There are only two correct sizes of cooling fans. The narrower size fits the earlier non-doghouse shrouds and the wider one fits the later doghouse shrouds. If using the right fan with the right shroud, shimmed properly per Bentley specs, you should only have a couple mm clearance between the two.
Sorry I don't know the widths of the two fans offhand. Maybe you have an early fan with a late shroud?? Also, if you have an aftermarket pulley which is not stock diameter the fan won't spin the correct speed for cooling.
IMO, make sure you have a good used stock German pulley and doghouse fan, and you'll have the best for your engine. I wouldn't trust JCW for anything.
EDIT: found a page with pics and measurements--
http://www.latebug.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=268
Also, lots of good info on fans
http://www.vw-resource.com/fan.html
Regards |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76935
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I wider fan will not fit in the fan shroud.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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gcarver
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2013
Posts: 254
Location: Murrieta, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: Reply to JohnR and Glenn... |
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I measured the cooling fan in metrics vs inches and it had an ID of 29mm. This is not the correct fan for an August 1972 48hp DP Type 1 motor, which is what I have. If memory serves me, that fan should measure 35mm to 37mm to be the correct fan. I have the "early" fan with a "late" shroud. Both my crank and generator pulleys be stock.
All of my tin including fan shroud is German.
I learned about the foolishness of aftermarket tin from my Bros at Samba.
Even my cylinder head tins have the air vanes... shiny.
Thanks again John and Glenn ( John Glenn?) for providing sound advice. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31373
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Oversize Cooling Fan...Should I??? |
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| gcarver wrote: |
Guys, I have a 1600 DP Type 1 with Doghouse shroud.
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With a 1600DP engine (and especially in a warmer climate like California), you NEED either an engine lid with vents, engine lid standoffs, or prop the engine lid open with the "tennis ball trick". You NEED airflow to keep that engine at proper temperature.
Notice that I stated "NEED" and not "SHOULD HAVE". VW engineers knew this, and started added ventilation slots with the 1600 SP engine for 1970 year, and on convertibles earlier than that.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76935
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Late model dog house fan.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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larryvance66
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2009
Posts: 731
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Find out why you are running hot and fix that. Don't change the fan. You should make sure you are not running a power pully. They turn the fan slower. Most overheating issues are timing or jetting related.
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I got a Volkswagen for my wife....Best trade I ever made! |
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volksworld
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011
Posts: 2529
Location: formerly NY currently NC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| I've also found aftermarket doghouse fans that weren't wide enough...they were wider than single port but at least 1/8 inch narrower than o.e. so make sure you get a real one....yes when vw went to the larger fan in 71 they put louvres in the deck lid for the increased aid flow |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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37 mm for doghouse fans!
Tim |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26320
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Agree, 37mm!
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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VW use many sizes of fans over the years.
PLEASE measure inside the fan and not outside. You want to know how much width inside for how much space all the cooling air goes thru. After all if and when some aftermarket manufacture makes a new fan, possibly with thicker metal it will measure thicker and not be accurate to how much air can actually be pumped thru it. In other words it is kind of like measuring cylinders on the outside and not the inside...
Up to the end of single port non-doghouse engine the biggest fan was 29 mm. The farther back in time you go the fans got much thinner.
Then the dog house came out with a 33 mm wide fan, later went to 34 mm, and finally went to 35 mm.
Dog house also used largest crankshaft pulley since the 40 HP came out in 1961!
Of course having all of the stock tin (except for possibly #29), and seals in place is a must!!
38 mm is just under 1 1/2", so guessing they are just measuring a 35 mm fan on the outside...
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:44 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Failer
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2005
Posts: 510
Location: South Austin
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| You didn't say that you were running hot to begin with. Are you, or why are you interested in this fan? |
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| larryvance66 wrote: |
| Find out why you are running hot and fix that. Don't change the fan. |
Even the blind can see why the engine is running hot.
The yellow fan shroud is a doghouse shroud (oil cooler intake is clearly visible) and it is running the narrow single port fan.
It's lucky the engine hasn't self destructed, with the single port fan the oil cooler would have been getting almost no air flow at all.
Also as Cusser says you need to supply some extra air for the bigger cooling system with a vented engine lid or stand offs.
you can leave it be as many do but don;t expect a long life from the engine. |
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gcarver
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2013
Posts: 254
Location: Murrieta, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: More Thanks. MOTOR NOT IN VEHICLE. |
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Maybe I could have clearer about my engine. I bought the car sans motor... purchased a motor separately which has yet to be installed. Re-read my post and you will see that I did say my engine was out of car... but I see my writing error.
Good advice on the engine lid louvers (which was supported by the link from John.... I am going with stand offs. No muss no fuss and look cool.
As to the cooling fan, I want maximum cooling power, but my fan had an ID (Inside Diameter) of 29 mm and is not the correct size for my 1972 DP. I want the fan whose actual id should be 36.8 mm.
My crank and generator pulleys are stock as is all of my cooling tin.
Thanks again for the good advice...
And GLENN, I checked out your 74 build... very cool.
Greg |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Crank pulley might be stock for non-dog house, but that means smaller pulley than DH, resulting in less fan/gen RPMs and less cooling air pumped over the engine...
Good luck with your build. Take your time, ask questions, and read up!
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In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31373
Location: Hot Arizona
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gcarver
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2013
Posts: 254
Location: Murrieta, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject: Eric and Barb _Cusser_Glenn_et al |
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The point was made that my stock crank pulley might be a stock pulley for a narrow cooling fan single port, engine.
That was an excellent point.
Does anyone off the top of your head know what the specs are for a stock 1600 DP Type 1 engine?
Greg |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24757
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Should be just over 7" in diameter if memory serves.
Most, but not all have a "D" stamped in the rear face. With stock VW upper pulley the ratio is about 1.8:1.
One can increase fan RPM even more with a stock 356 Porsche upper pulley that is smaller than the stock VW one. With DH lower pulley and 356 Porsche pulley ratio goes up to about 2:1.
Do beware, if you plan on doing really high engine RPMs the fan can blow up. So might be not a great idea for a Porsche pulley and/or go with welded fan that will not blow up.
For us in our 1960 bus the Porsche pulley all the stock DH parts and modify the shroud to fit in a type 4 oil cooler for 40% bigger than DH cooler has worked well for us. We do keep the RPMs down below 3,500 RPM for short bursts, cruise @ 3,000 RPM, and keep oil temp below 220 F. Now have over 125,000 miles on the engine....
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