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timo78 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2009 Posts: 931 Location: Overcast and Loving it
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:54 am Post subject: Opinion on Eurovans |
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I recently got interested in an 'upgrade', and checked out a local 1999 Eurovan with low miles [38K] and super clean all around. But a number of things bugged me.
The plastic used seemed thin and with the punishment I do to my bus I'd be breaking stuff regularly. I like the old school metal and real wood.
The top bed: When I was folding it up I noticed that it would not 'recess' into the very back. Instead it folds up at an angle and then you cannot close the top. Also while trying to put it back into the 'driving' position it got stuck and all 3 holding screws ripped out [WTF!!]
The pop top: It would seem that being contemporary it would have an advantage over the old style pop top. Instead I found it to be more cumbersome. The canvas easily gets in the way of all the latches. And being the bed has to be folded all the wa y out, makes it difficult to pull the side canvas in. I guess that is why they have the little straps.
The louvered windows: I drive with my jalousies open at freeway speed all the time. These seemed supper flimsy, and the roller mech [ made from plastic] also seemed supper weak. I'd break that quickly.
More narrow: The bottom and top beds seem narrow compared to the bay I have.
There's also plenty of things I like: such as V6 power plant, 3way fridge, vinyl floor, rear water sprayer, dual capt chairs.
I'm curious how folks in this forum feel in regards to the Eurovan. _________________ > 78Grµn Westfalia `Donkey`
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It may be bigger than you and it may be bigger than me, but it’s not bigger than you AND me; can you dig it? |
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joseph928 Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011 Posts: 2114 Location: flagstaff az.
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: Eurovan |
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Cost to much, look like hell, ride to low, made out of plastic, have bad transmission, and the very few that have 4 WD can't beat my Subaru ! That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. _________________ 1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug. |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Eh.. Just recognize that this is a very Vanagon-heavy forum. And Eurovans are often viewed upon as too new, too soul-less, blah blah blah.
Just like Bay and Splittie folks look upon Vanagons.
But I like 'em all. The more modern handling Eurovan has its place.
If it were me, I'd look for a manual.. but they are rare.
I wouldn't cross the street for 4WD/AWD, so that's a non-issue AFAIAC.
Bottom line is that Eurovans are getting up there in yrs. and that will cost money in terms of maintenance/restore. The forum tech support is not as strong as the Vanagon and the aftermarket is not as rich as it is for Vanagons, Bays, and Splitties.
But, even though I am a Vanagon guy.. I'd not hesitate to own a Eurovan as well. (just a matter of money and room).
I will draw the line at the Routan, however _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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mpabegg Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2011 Posts: 79 Location: Ballard, WA
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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We purchased our 02 EV Weekender in 2008 with about 120,000 on it and a new transmission. Since then we have put over 110,000 reliable miles on her (Odometer now reads 234,000). I have upgraded quite a few things to our liking (transmission cooler, small lift, BFG's, double din GPS, swivel passenger seat, 100AH second battery, ARB fridge, roof rack,...) . I prefer the size of the westy weekender over the longer wheelbase winnebago. After the lift it has the same ground clearance as a non-syncro Vanagon and does great in snow and trails (Electronic Stability Control works well). I tend to drive my EV like an under powered Vanagon, so we get great milage (but we always have the extra power when needed). We often get 24 MPG on long trips. The 21 gallon fuel tank also helps me get a little farther on driving days. The biggest downfall on these vans is the price for parts. They are also getting to be older and many of them on the market will require quite a few replacement parts to keep them reliable. This could add up fast! _________________ 90 Syncro "Priscilla" |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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I have had a few swing by for service, the owners called them a Westfalia.
I took one look and replied, that's not a Vanagon and get it out of here. |
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mpabegg Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2011 Posts: 79 Location: Ballard, WA
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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insyncro wrote: |
I have had a few swing by for service, the owners called them a Westfalia.
I took one look and replied, that's not a Vanagon and get it out of here. |
Probably a smart decision! They really can be a POS to work on. I've gotten used to it over the years. _________________ 90 Syncro "Priscilla" |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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mpabegg wrote: |
insyncro wrote: |
I have had a few swing by for service, the owners called them a Westfalia.
I took one look and replied, that's not a Vanagon and get it out of here. |
Probably a smart decision! They really can be a POS to work on. I've gotten used to it over the years. |
The same can be said about a Syncro.
Way cooler of a rig IMHO.
They are enough for me. |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1107 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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j-dirge hit the nail on the head. This is primarily a T3 Vanagon forum. You're not likely to get much positive feedback or real world experienced answers here. In the words of Alexander Keith: "those who like it, like it a lot."
Let's face it, all VWs have their pitfalls. The Eurovan is no different. Based on your description it sounds like you tested a Winnebago T4. That's one variation I've yet to own or lay hands on but based on other Winnebago products that I have, I'd wager their quality is not up to par with Westfalia. That said, if you want a "full" camper in a T4 here in North America, you'll either have to find a Canadian Westfalia CV (1992 only) or live with the Winnebago. VW did offer the Westfalia in weekender flavor in '93, '94 and '99-03. The early vans had a 5 cylinder gasser (or diesel here to in Canada) which you could get with a 5 speed trans - this a pretty bullet proof combo. The later 24V VRs are nice and reasonably powerful but the trans on these vans are pretty dear. I've had several and I've yet to have one with a bum trans but there are plenty of people who'll claim otherwise. Caveat emptor when it comes to one. My personal .02c, if you're not comfortable doing the inspection pay to have a known good VW indy shop do a 3rd party inspection- this advice goes for any used VW of any type. |
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Deezel Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Eastern Long Island
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: Eurovan opinion? Good. YMMV |
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I know I'm a noob, but am a long-time lurker and have owned several VW campers, '71, '73, '82 diesel, and now a '95 EVC.
Yes, the Winnebago in no way matches up to the quality of a Westy, but, and it is a big but, there's no comparison either when it comes to a reliable ride. Side note, my '95 is a five cylinder five speed, a widely recognized bulletproof combination. And I'm the second owner and found it with 49k miles.
Easiest way to say it is this. My wife will go anywhere in our van. She has confidence in it. Sure, the camper is not as cool or rugged or as capable off-road. But from where I sit on Long Island, you have to drive a lot of road miles to get anywhere nice. And although the aftermarket doesn't love Eurovans, I am able to get parts at my very good local FLAPS. (Picked up a knock sensor there today. Anyone got a hint where the G61 goes?)
That all being said, I'd never get one with the automatic. I'd always be sweating about when, not if, it was gonna fail. |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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insyncro wrote: |
I have had a few swing by for service, the owners called them a Westfalia.
I took one look and replied, that's not a Vanagon and get it out of here. |
Sounds pretty ignorant to me......you....not them
The Eurovans that came to the USA as Weekenders with Poptops were in deed made by Westfalia
People with the LWB Winnebago seem to complain about quality of the Poptop and plastic more than SWB Westy owners
People worldwide seem to LOVE the T4 van. (Eurovan in the USA). There are a ton of forums, just nothing really USA centric except EV_update on yahoo!
Several threads with 700k+ mile examples of these vans. I've even seen a few 3-400k USA version Eurovans. (400k one on original auto trans)
I don't get the "hard to work on" bit either. Only takes about 15-20 minutes working casually to remove the entire front of the van. At which point you have more access to the engine than you will ever have on a vanagon. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Xtremjeepn wrote: |
insyncro wrote: |
I have had a few swing by for service, the owners called them a Westfalia.
I took one look and replied, that's not a Vanagon and get it out of here. |
Sounds pretty ignorant to me......you....not them
The Eurovans that came to the USA as Weekenders with Poptops were in deed made by Westfalia
People with the LWB Winnebago seem to complain about quality of the Poptop and plastic more than SWB Westy owners
People worldwide seem to LOVE the T4 van. (Eurovan in the USA). There are a ton of forums, just nothing really USA centric except EV_update on yahoo!
Several threads with 700k+ mile examples of these vans. I've even seen a few 3-400k USA version Eurovans. (400k one on original auto trans)
I don't get the "hard to work on" bit either. Only takes about 15-20 minutes working casually to remove the entire front of the van. At which point you have more access to the engine than you will ever have on a vanagon. |
Your build thread was really helpful for demystifying how the front of the T4 is constructed. I find them quite appealing. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Salem7 Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2010 Posts: 203 Location: Washington County, New York
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I owned 2 Evans. a 93 short wheel base 7 seater and a 95 win camper. Both with 2.5L 5 cylinder and 5 speed. Both were good. I got tired of getting stuck on dirt roads with the EV camper. All the weight is in the rear and front wheel drive and very minimal clearance will not cut it on the slightest grade on a gravel road. Rust became a big factor on the 93, I got rid of it before it got too bad. Other than that the 93 was a perfect kid hauler.
The 82 Westy is fine for me, I am in no hurry, get 30+ mpg, Kids are grown. I can work on anything on the Vanagon. You need to be a contortionist to work on the Eurovan. _________________ 1982 Westfalia 1.6NA diesel. Converted to Turbo 1.6 and sold.
1995 Eurovan Camper |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Salem7 wrote: |
You need to be a contortionist to work on the Eurovan. |
I honestly don't know what you are talking about.
Go ahead and follow the links to these two pictures and look at the EXIF data.
17:50:59 (5:50pm) Is when this van was driven into the garage.
Working VERY casually (taking pictures obviously )
This picture was taken at 19:11:00 (7:11) A mear 1 hour and 21 minutes later.(when I took the picture, after going inside to wash hands and talk to wife, etc) I put it up on ramps, took the entire front end off, all of the intake and clear down to the cams in less than 1.5 hours Not sure where the mystery is here! Everything on the pulley system can be changed without even lifting the van or the hood. I can change the alternator for example in less than 10 min just by laying under the passenger side fender.
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valleywestys Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Location: Staunton, Virginia
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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We own both Vanagon and Eurovan Campers, as well as a couple of Rialtas. They all have their strong points/ weak points. You need to figure out what your individual needs are, and pick the Camper that best fulfills them. There is no right or wrong answer.
We have thousands of miles in each of them, and have loved and hated them each at different times. The fact that I'm currently building a Vanagon Hightop, may give you an indication for what I'm thinking will be the best ALL-AROUND travel vehicle for us.
It may, or may not be the best for you......
(The fact that we are a dealer for NorthAmerican Hightops really didn't influence this choice. It simply made it a little easier to execute. We will see how it works out, when RUBY hits the road next Spring.....) |
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Salem7 Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2010 Posts: 203 Location: Washington County, New York
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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You don't have to take a vanagon half way apart to access the engine! The vanagon diesel is the easiest thing besides a farm tractor and BMW bike to work on that I have. _________________ 1982 Westfalia 1.6NA diesel. Converted to Turbo 1.6 and sold.
1995 Eurovan Camper |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Salem7 wrote: |
You don't have to take a vanagon half way apart to access the engine! The vanagon diesel is the easiest thing besides a farm tractor and BMW bike to work on that I have. |
It wasn't a comparison. A Vanagon gives no more access than any other car old car.
Just pointing out that the Eurovan is not some big mystery crazy to work on thing. It was designed like many modern European cars. Just take out a few bolts and the entire front end pops off and you get great and easy access to everything. |
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josh_w Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2008 Posts: 68 Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Salem7 wrote: |
The vanagon diesel is the easiest thing besides a farm tractor.... |
...and only slightly slower. _________________ '99 Eurovan Westfalia Weekender |
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Nachtfalter Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 139 Location: Surf Beach California
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Well, of the two:
One is the world's coolest adventure wagon, like the swiss army knife of out door cars. It looks like a toy, and it is loved, praised, and a conversation starter nearly everywhere it goes. Once a few things are sorted out, it is bulletproof for years and years of enjoyment. There is an endless list of super cool easily installed upgrade items to make it uniquely yours.
The other is a eurovan. |
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debbiej Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2008 Posts: 1541 Location: las cruces, nm
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Nachtfalter wrote: |
Well, of the two:
One is the world's coolest adventure wagon, like the swiss army knife of out door cars. It looks like a toy, and it is loved, praised, and a conversation starter nearly everywhere it goes. Once a few things are sorted out, it is bulletproof for years and years of enjoyment. There is an endless list of super cool easily installed upgrade items to make it uniquely yours.
The other is a eurovan. |
This is true.
We had a eurovan. It was nice in many ways. There were a lot fewer made than vanagons, when you try to find parts or someone to work on them. We've been tempted by a couple of eurovan campers, but didn't get past the test drive stage. My husband, who doesn't even share my obsession with vanagon westfalias, said it didn't have the "sunny personality" of our Westy. He is not usually so descriptive or glowing in its praises. Usually he is grumbling about the noise, highway speed or something. But he flat out said he'd rather have the vanagon Westy. |
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andafiro Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2011 Posts: 154 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Nachtfalter wrote: |
One is the world's coolest adventure wagon, like the swiss army knife of out door cars. It looks like a toy, and it is loved, praised, and a conversation starter nearly everywhere it goes. |
That's it. It looks like a toy.
As much and for as long as I've admired these, I wasn't prepared for the attention I'd get driving one. Kids grin and point; guys call out "Sweet van!". My children are freaking adorable and if any pictures I post on Facebook show my kids AND my van, it's the van that gets all the comments now.
Honestly. Who doesn't want one?
It looks like a toy. _________________ -- Andrea
'86 Westy 4-speed w/ EJ22 (a Racerrojo production!)
"It's got an eagle feather hangin' from the rear-view mirror..." |
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