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tim3
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Joined: February 01, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: ignition switch "P" wire on 66 squareback? |
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So my ignition switch on my 66 square is missing the wire coming from the "P" solder point. Right now i have to run a wire from the coil to the battery to start the car. Is this wire that is missing the "on/off" switch? I am guessing i can just run this wire where the actual wiring harness coil wire goes to the fuse panel? I looked at the wiring diagram for a 66 and there is no "P" wire listed but there is on this http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_1500S_6465.jpg diagram which looks like the "p" wire goes in a loop but possibly connects to the "15/54" wire with a T2 connector (which i dont have)
that runs to the coil via the fuse panel.. My question is again if I run this "P" wire from the iginition to the "15/54" just like in the diagram this should let me turn on and off the car with the key?
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tim3
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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so on further analysis I see that the "p" wires do not actually do anything but make a loop.. so does this wire just split into two for a fuse? I am completely missing this wire off the ignition switch so anyone with photo or explanation of what this wire does that I am missing would help.. currently I can not turn on the power to the car with the key however I can turn the starter over with the key.. to give the car spark i need to run a wire from the coil to the battery.. hoping this missing "p" wire is the culprit..
found this on another post:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/type3_1500s-1200dpi.jpg
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W1K1
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Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like the P circuit is the side marker lights providing power to Pi and Pr.
You may have a break or a short in your coi to fuseboxl wire, or somewhere along the circuit.
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1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
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tim3
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
Looks like the P circuit is the side marker lights providing power to Pi and Pr.
You may have a break or a short in your coi to fuseboxl wire, or somewhere along the circuit. |
Im not talking about the "Pl & Pr" wires those are on the signal switch. I am talking about the wire that is labeled "P" on the Ignition switch. This wire is missing. I have four wires coming from my ignition switch:
Solid Red (30)
Solid Red (50)
Solid Black (15/54)
Solid Beige (P) MISSING
Can anyone confirm what this wire does?
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Tram
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tim3 wrote: |
| W1K1 wrote: |
Looks like the P circuit is the side marker lights providing power to Pi and Pr.
You may have a break or a short in your coi to fuseboxl wire, or somewhere along the circuit. |
Im not talking about the "Pl & Pr" wires those are on the signal switch. I am talking about the wire that is labeled "P" on the Ignition switch. This wire is missing. I have four wires coming from my ignition switch:
Solid Red (30)
Solid Red (50)
Solid Black (15/54)
Solid Beige (P) MISSING
Can anyone confirm what this wire does? |
When the ignition switch is in a certain position with the car parked, it feeds power to the P wire which is connected to the signal switch. You then select which side marker you want to leave on by positioning the signal switch, hence "Park R" and "Park L"
On U.S. spec switches, there is a P terminal but no wire.
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customcityjim
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Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| May be your parking lights |
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tim3
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Posts: 547
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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My car never had side markers so i am still skeptical of this "p" wire as i only seeing it doing a loop on the diagram.. but i'll take your word for it and not worry about this as the potential issue on why i can crank the starter but no power to the coil unless i run a wire from the coil to the battery.. So no i need to figure out how to make my ignition switch actually turn on the power to the car.. :/
can anyone point out which wires give power to the coil when the key is turned to the on position..
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tim3
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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im guessing the black wire?
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tim3
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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here is the another tasty bit of information for this mystery.. if i do not run the wire from the coil to the battery no power to anything except the starter can crank over.. when i run a wire from the coil and the original harness wire on the coil is still in place everything will work i.e. (warning lights, blinkers, dash ligths, and the car)..
so maybe the switch is bad? the flasher and dimmer switch relay is 6v, but the flashers still work but dimmer doesnt? could bad 6v relays in a 12v car cause this issue.. argh need to change them anyways but yeah..
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Tram
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tim3 wrote: |
here is the another tasty bit of information for this mystery.. if i do not run the wire from the coil to the battery no power to anything except the starter can crank over.. when i run a wire from the coil and the original harness wire on the coil is still in place everything will work i.e. (warning lights, blinkers, dash ligths, and the car)..
so maybe the switch is bad? the flasher and dimmer switch relay is 6v, but the flashers still work but dimmer doesnt? could bad 6v relays in a 12v car cause this issue.. argh need to change them anyways but yeah.. |
Sounds like no power from ignition switch E to wire 15/54 (black) which feeds power to fuses 9/10 and controls all that stuff.
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tim3
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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ok Ill get my volt meter out on the 15/54 wire and see if any power is coming from there..
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ataraxia
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Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| tim3 wrote: |
| W1K1 wrote: |
Looks like the P circuit is the side marker lights providing power to Pi and Pr.
You may have a break or a short in your coi to fuseboxl wire, or somewhere along the circuit. |
Im not talking about the "Pl & Pr" wires those are on the signal switch. I am talking about the wire that is labeled "P" on the Ignition switch. This wire is missing. I have four wires coming from my ignition switch:
Solid Red (30)
Solid Red (50)
Solid Black (15/54)
Solid Beige (P) MISSING
Can anyone confirm what this wire does? |
When the ignition switch is in a certain position with the car parked, it feeds power to the P wire which is connected to the signal switch. You then select which side marker you want to leave on by positioning the signal switch, hence "Park R" and "Park L"
On U.S. spec switches, there is a P terminal but no wire. |
Damn...beat me to it! 
Euro cars had euro switches-which have dual contact plates in the column. if you look at the photo I posted earlier (in your other thread), you'll see two rows of contacts on the plate and two little brass tabs on the actual arm. The tabs on the arm contact two points (power and direction), so technically, W1K1 is correct as well.
The "American" versions have only one row of contacts on the plate and only one tab on the signal arm and the "P" circuit is absent. In a wiring diagram you'll see that one terminal is empty and the solder plate at the back of the column will be missing two of the six spade connectors (the left and right side marker contacts).
This is a NOS ignition without the P wire:
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tim3
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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But my p wire is broken its not absent. Anyways I figured out this car is wired like a retard. The cause of the key not being able to start the car is a faulty dimmer relay. Not sure why this relay is causing the problem but when I bypass it everything works as it should. So now I can turn the car on and off with my keys! Thanks Tram you pointed me in the right direction as always
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ataraxia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| tim3 wrote: |
| But my p wire is broken its not absent. Anyways I figured out this car is wired like a retard. The cause of the key not being able to start the car is a faulty dimmer relay. Not sure why this relay is causing the problem but when I bypass it everything works as it should. So now I can turn the car on and off with my keys! Thanks Tram you pointed me in the right direction as always |
I was providing an example of cars that do not have them.
If you do not have or plan to have side markers, don't worry about the P wire as it has one real function. |
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tim3
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I was providing an example of cars that do not have them.
If you do not have or plan to have side markers, don't worry about the P wire as it has one real function. |
what function is that? picking up hot chicks on the side?
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rustyfastback
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I see a lot of '66 USA spec cars & columns with the gray wire from the "P" terminal of the ignition switch cut. I suspect the factory just produced the euro switch at that time & just cut the wire as USA models had no side markers. I see a lot of '67 USA models that do not have the "P" terminal. Your switch sounds like it has gone bad not because of the missing "P" wire though. |
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tim3
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Actually my switch is fine.. it is the 6v headlight relay that went bad causing my switch to not work.. its wired like ass in my car so i bypassed the relay and now my ignition switch works perfect..
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| tim3 wrote: |
| Actually my switch is fine.. it is the 6v headlight relay that went bad causing my switch to not work.. its wired like ass in my car so i bypassed the relay and now my ignition switch works perfect.. |
For a guy who has owned several VWs over the years, you should have known that the PO never finished doing the 12 volt conversion of that 66. 
Very rarely does anybody actually go thru the entire system, and replace ALL of the parts when doing that conversion.  You'll probably it still has the 6 volt wiper motor, and probably the 6 volt fuel gauge too. 
Whenever I work on an early 6 volt car that's been converted, I expect to find it incomplete. It's just a fact that some people are too damn lazy to finish the job. 
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tim3
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Posts: 547
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| tim3 wrote: |
| Actually my switch is fine.. it is the 6v headlight relay that went bad causing my switch to not work.. its wired like ass in my car so i bypassed the relay and now my ignition switch works perfect.. |
For a guy who has owned several VWs over the years, you should have known that the PO never finished doing the 12 volt conversion of that 66.
Very rarely does anybody actually go thru the entire system, and replace ALL of the parts when doing that conversion. You'll probably it still has the 6 volt wiper motor, and probably the 6 volt fuel gauge too.
Whenever I work on an early 6 volt car that's been converted, I expect to find it incomplete. It's just a fact that some people are too damn lazy to finish the job. |
Lol I never looked to see what was changed or not i was being lazy..
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