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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: Machining case for larger bore cylinders :Acceptable methods |
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I need to have a case machined for larger cylinders. My favorite shop said that they did not have the right fixture to clamp a case down so they could not do it for me. Another shop told me that if I took the studs out of the case they could do the work with a bridgeport mill. I did not get into detail with my favorite machinist but if he does not think he can do something right he won't do it. I also would like to have the surface that the oil strainer meets with milled .015 because it is uneven. How can this be done and are there any thoughts on that procedure?
Thanks for your expertise! |
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mxracer Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2011 Posts: 568 Location: NC
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Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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You're gonna need to remove the studs or have "your favorite machinist" make a fixture. Like this as an example
Or send it out to someone that does VW machining. |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: thanks for the great picture |
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Why is it that the bellhousing can not be bolted down to a fixture and the mill be turned to the side? The bellhousing is stiff enough but auto machinists just have a basic mill ,am I correct? |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I always pull all the bolts and dowels and bolt it down to the bed of the mill.
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: Flatten sump plate surface on case for 10 bucks |
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I figured out a cheap and effective method to fix the sump plate surface ,will post some pictures in this thread and how to do it.
But... what is wrong with the bellhousing? It's strong , it has holes in it and IT'S already there! ?????
Last edited by theKbStockpiler on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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You obviously aren't a machinist. Rigidity is your friend and you need lots of it or lots of strange things happen. |
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66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah too much wobble to get it done accurately _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
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scotth17 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012 Posts: 335 Location: Bedford Texas
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Box that bad boy up and ship it to Rimco. They have plenty of experience and screwing up a perfectly good case these days is more expensive than ever.... |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15297 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Rimco can screw up just as bad as any novice out there. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mxracer Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2011 Posts: 568 Location: NC
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 am Post subject: |
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If you're going to send it out I'd be happy to take care of it for you. |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9452 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
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A Bridgeport will take a VW case even w/ studs. Just set it up w/ precision parallels and clamp it down properly. It is a simple bore work for the machinist.
Clamping the case w/ the trans mount can be done w/ a very large mill so long as NO OVERHANG. Meaning you have to support the bottom and level it out..and clamp. This setup will take way too much room and too much work to find level. You will be indicating all day long.
The case-halves already have the flats machined so use that.
For people who want to learn machining, I recommend several machining books you have to read and learn its process. Principles of machining I and II, Jigs and Fixture designs, Toolbit designs. Read through these then you might have an idea how not to kill yourself - loose a clamped workpiece and break a toolbit to lodge in your eyeball or brain or hurt someone else. It is not as simple as it looks. Requires proper training. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:35 am Post subject: |
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when we got our new seat&guide machine it came with fixtures&cutters for doing vw heads&cases....of corse we didnt do any vw shit for years till I got into it for some stupid reason......real stupid reason.
I use my mill to do it, it's easy&fast, but not like jimmy I think he's cheeten a little.....wish i still had a cheet sheet machine at my fingertips.
I dont think any of those vw fixtures we had were ever used,I do all vw stuff at home in my shop&make all my own jigs& cutters |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Here are the images of fixing the sump.
Last edited by theKbStockpiler on Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:28 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:51 am Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
when we got our new seat&guide machine it came with fixtures&cutters for doing vw heads&cases....of corse we didnt do any vw shit for years till I got into it for some stupid reason......real stupid reason.
I use my mill to do it, it's easy&fast, but not like jimmy I think he's cheeten a little.....wish i still had a cheet sheet machine at my fingertips.
I dont think any of those vw fixtures we had were ever used,I do all vw stuff at home in my shop&make all my own jigs& cutters |
Not really cheating. If you were doing one or 2 jobs the Bridgeport is eaisier. If you do a lot than the CNC is better and faster.
I have my mill set up to clearance for crank, bore for lifter bore inserts, cut for larger cylinders and groove for teflon case seal all in one setup.
Nice and easy. But ill say I ruined a few cases getting there.... |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
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if I still had that machine I would be doing a lot of neet stuff and putting some much needed biger dia cambearings in these motors among other things. |
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mxracer Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2011 Posts: 568 Location: NC
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Real machinists turn dials
I'm joking of course....I'd love to pick up a CNC machine and to me it's just another tool to work with... but I couldn't resist. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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hmm ...the herco's I ran had a dial..or was that a ball?? crap I think 1 had a ball& one had a dial for joging. the mind is a tereiable thing.....to waste or loose. I was getting a cnc mill, went to work at a friends prototype shop to learn how to program&run them,I was making all kinds of stuff,fro the big 3 automakers(prototype stuff) and a lot of aerospace stuff and lots of DOD stuff along with piles of other stuff & tool&die work too.I was already to get me a nice cnc mill to start making car stuff&parts, but all i got was 2 different cancers,a sliced longthorassaic nerv and way too much raidiation.(in retrospect I think I should of gone with the cnc mill) |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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To do a VW case they will surely have to rig up or make SOMETHING. Maybe it is just a bushing, maybe it is a particular stack of parallels, three feet of all-thread.... or maybe they go nuts like Jim and take out all the studs???
But whatever it is does have an amount of time, and thought, and effort and therefore a $ amount.
Essentially, it should cost more than the shipping to send it to a shop that already is geared-up to do this.
If they are hungry then maybe they will do it, (any work is better than none), if they are not hungry then send it somewhere else |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ive seen them done with the case bolted togeather and a spacer bolted where the cylinders go so it can sit squarly&flat on the mill.you couls probably use something like a head thats milled out for stud&nut clearance&holes for hold downs. anything is possiable with enough time& thinken. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, that's what I did last time. Worked fine, rigid enough to face it out halfway through the case savers in one cut, but many shops don't have a mill that big.
If I make a spacer that fits in #1 and makes it the same ID as #4 bearing bore, then I can put a 50mm bar through it and setup very much the same as common engines. I haven't seen that done but I'm sure it has been also. |
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