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zeekiel Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2011 Posts: 153 Location: South Lake Tahoe, Colorado
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
zeekiel wrote: |
This whole situation just breaks my heart. |
Sorry to hear that, but these are machines...they break, you fix.
Your turn today - I may be next.
Git 'r done. Good luck. |
That was the most zen response I've gotten.
Maybe I should put a price cap on the situation and work from there? _________________ 85' Westy GL /w 2.1L Swap |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16505 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
Like Dylan suggested, don't forget option #6:
Swap for a used WBX from someone else's conversion.
Cheap, (relatively) easy and you're back on the road...(for now)...
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X3 on putting in a used wbx from a swap project.
Your mechanic should charge much less than any of the other 5 options and some folks have given away their wbx when doing a swap (although I think the going rate for a used wbx is $500 to $800 depending on condition).
Good luck. Don't give up. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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zeekiel Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2011 Posts: 153 Location: South Lake Tahoe, Colorado
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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insyncro wrote: |
If the mechanic did a warm leakdown test...than that will establish how bad off the headgaskets are.
The temp gauge and associated wiring and sensor are not to be trusted
If it spikes from cold start within seconds, I would be carefully looking into that first.
FYI, a rebuilt 2.2 Subaru motor could very well be on its third rebuild at this point in time and that motor only offers minimal gains of performance and reliability in the "rebuilt" arena.
As Jon posted...if you have a burning desire for a 2.2, go and buy a complete running van already converted and save the hassle and expense of building your van.
Sell it as a fixer upper to offset the cost.
I don't see the time element working in your favor when thinking conversion. |
These are all good points, and will all be considered. _________________ 85' Westy GL /w 2.1L Swap |
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madspaniard Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008 Posts: 3795 Location: Alameda, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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SCM wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
Their only practical skill is the ability to write huge checks! Hopefully they also have the skills that earn them huge paychecks as well! |
Sorry to thread drift but I'm getting pretty darn tired of reading these sorts of comments. I'm hardly a 1-percenter but it does in fact take a bit of money to own a garage and tools let alone a "toy" vehicle.
If my only "practical skill" is the ability to write huge checks I'm f-ing happy with that. Try feeding your family and paying a mortgage using whatever "practical skills" you employ to keep your van running. There are a sparse few on this board that can make that claim and at least one of them appears to question whether that is worth continuing.
I enjoy working on my van. I've replaced the fuel tank/lines, coolant system, propane tank, and countless little things. But you know what else I enjoy? Biking, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, fishing, playing music, enjoying a glass of wine, visiting friends, etc etc etc. When the time needed to fix something on my van is going to cut too deeply into the rest of my life it's off to the shop where they can fix the problem while I do other things. Six weeks of my time to do an engine conversion? I simply have no desire to do that - I'm glad my "practical skills" allow me to pay someone else to. |
Thanks for speaking for many of us here _________________ 1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6247 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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If it were my van, I'd change the heads and gaskets and be on my way. If you only get another 30,000 miles by doing this, that's 5 years of driving for me. Worth $2,000 in my opinion. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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kryptkat Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2008 Posts: 236
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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I find it shocking how people on this form at surprised at how often they have to fix these vehicles or that they wish it was made by Ford, Toyota, or Ferrari.
How often do you see people driving 30 year old Ford or Toyotas daily let along a camper with double the weight and twice as many parts?
These vehicles are not for everyone and if you’re going to acquire a 30 year old vehicle, you better be mechanically inclined or have a phat wallet or both. It doesn’t matter if it’s a VW, Porsche, Merc, Ford or Ferrari. |
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zeekiel Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2011 Posts: 153 Location: South Lake Tahoe, Colorado
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Im starting to narrow down ideas on how to resolve this. Thank you for all your input! keep it coming! _________________ 85' Westy GL /w 2.1L Swap |
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wasserbox Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2008 Posts: 533 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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PDXWesty wrote: |
If it were my van, I'd change the heads and gaskets and be on my way. If you only get another 30,000 miles by doing this, that's 5 years of driving for me. Worth $2,000 in my opinion. |
This. |
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greebly Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009 Posts: 966 Location: Here and now
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Money Machine |
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zeekiel wrote: |
I paid $6,000 for the van. and I love my van. but this is starting to get ridiculous. Am I missing any options. What would you do?
Welcoming any comments!! |
In for a penny, in for a pound. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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In the back of my head, I believe if the coolant level drops below the minimum, the red led flashes in the temp gauge and the needle climbs to peg out. I don't know where that memory comes from.
To test for a compression leak into the cooling system, there is a simple to use tool that sniffs for carbon monoxide in the coolant. Something like this. Most shops should have this tool.
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_1108_blown_head_gasket_diagnostic/
If that test passes, you can then do a cylinder leak down test to verify the engine is sealed. If it passes these two tests, maybe update the cooling system including a flush, verify the cap holds pressure, the coolant is circulating and the rad fan cycles on and off eventually. You'd have to do this even with a replacement engine of any type. Search Libby Bong here. _________________ ☮️ |
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240Gordy Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008 Posts: 2354 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
PS: Please tell us more about this so-called "head gasket test"...??? |
Exhaust gases in the coolant tank. _________________ Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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jbnova Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2010 Posts: 118 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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We bought our Westy Weekender 3 or 4 years ago at the end of summer. We camped in it a few times, then put it away for winter. When spring came, I charged up the battery and fired her up. White smoke came out of the tail pipe in billowing plumes. I could smell coolant.
Took it to the mechanic and had them check that, plus a few other things. They found several spots where hoses were leaking, so they fixed that first. They left the system pressurized overnight, the next morning it hydro-locked with coolant in the cylinders. Diagnosis: pull the heads and replace the gaskets.
Dang. Approaching our first full summer of camping and already a hefty repair required.
While researching whether I should replace the heads, the whole engine or go with a conversion, I came across several recommendations to try the magic Subie Sauce. A stop-leak additive made by Subaru to help stop head gasket leaks.
I tried it. It worked!
I haven't lost a drop of coolant in three years, and not a puff of white smoke.
If your engine sounds like it's running well, I would start with a $5 bottle of the Subaru stop-leak from your local dealer first.
I thought my engine was toast, but we just keep on driving, and keep on camping.
_________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender
2wd; Bostig RG3
GoWesty (H&R) 1.5" Lift Springs + 0.5" pad in rear.
Bilstein Shocks
16" Mefros, Cooper Discoverer AT3 (215-70-16) |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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zeekiel wrote: |
...But what had happended was I was driving it back from a 1,000+ mile trip and it would overheat then go back down within seconds.. and it did that maybe 10x on the trip on the way home and then recently it got to a point where it will overheat immiedatly and will not go down. took it to a mechanic and he said one of the heads is blown? |
Wellsir, as others have hinted -- I see nothing there that definitively proves (or even strongly suggests) a failed head 'gasket'.
You should certainly ask the mechanic what test he performed.
In my (admittedly limited) experience head 'gasket' failures manifest themselves in one of 2 ways:
1. Combustion gases in the coolant (for this there is a test) which typically cause coolant to puke out of the overflow reservoir and leaves a pocket of 'air' in the expansion tank.
2. Coolant leaving the engine in copious amounts (no test needed as you, your wife, the guy driving behind you, etc can all quickly diagnose this one).
As noted above -- the behavior of your temp gauge (frequent pegging including pegging immediately after start-up) can be explained by something as simple as a wiring fault, bad sensor in the expansion tank or air in the cooling system.
If your mechanic tested the coolant for combustion products and you trust his ability then you may need major work -- but more info is called for methinks. |
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Farfrumwork Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2008 Posts: 692 Location: Mile High
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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^^ be careful with stop-leak type fixes... I'd consider a new radiator post treatment (IF you would go that route), as the treatment can clog up unintended items (like coolant passages in the radiator).
I'd go with used but running a 2.1 wbx if I were you. find something from a conversion. expect more like $1000 for a good one plus whatever your mechanic charges. I had a stock 1.9l here in CO for a couple years... would NOT spend $$ on one - go 2.1l at least.
And I would add that even if one can write checks for mechanic work, it does not prepare you for self-sufficient travel and ownership. People have different ideals, but personally I would rather take care of my own. (btw, 6 weeks for a swap does NOT mean 8hr a day for 6 weeks).
kryptkat has it right - 30yr old vehicles require attention! don't buy one if you can't give it (via sweat/blood or checkbook - OR both more than likely).
I built my own van and i take great pride in that . I'm way ahead on valuation vs. $$ invested as well. I still have lots of time for my family, payed work, and fun (hike/bike/etc...) - BUT this is one of my hobbies so I make time when I can (it's part of the fun! )
Good Luck!! _________________ sold -> '85 Wolfsburg Syncro / 'Built' DOHC EJ25 (a great machine!)
'07 Legacy spec.B, road tuned stgII
'17 4x4 Sprinter, stone grey, SMB pop-top, on 33"s
"Blood stains, speed kills - Fast cars, cheap thrills - Rich girls, fine wine - I've lost my sense, I've lost control, I've lost my mind" |
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VisPacem Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 1143 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Money Machine |
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zeekiel wrote: |
Well I guess the rumors are true that these vans are more expensive than a Ferrari. I've kinda always known it just from being an owner. But my head gasket blew. My mechanic said it failed the head gasket test? .. Also, when you turn my van on the temp gauge immediately goes all the way to maximum hot.
Anyways, Im having a hard time finding the next logical step. from my understanding these are my options as I don't have a garage and only basic tools and basic car knowledge.
1. Rocky mountain westy 2.2 conversion $12,000..3 year warranty
2. Replace heads $2,000 but im just putting new parts on an old engine and who knows how long that will last again.
3. Replace with Remanu motor from Bus depot $4,500 no warranty
4. buy a high milage subaru motor and have my mechanic install. prob around $7,000
5. Try to sell the van with blown heads, who knows how long that would take. and im moving at the end of this month.
I paid $6,000 for the van. and I love my van. but this is starting to get ridiculous. Am I missing any options. What would you do? This has been sad and frustrating.
Welcoming any comments!! |
Zee, you are 100% right. The Vanagon is a toy, an expensive toy. I'll call it the Marilyn Monroe of automobiles. It's wonderful, it feels good, it looks good, but by Jove it costs a King's (or a president) fortune to keep going. My first Vanagon was a air cooled Westphalia. Ruinous and never ready to trot when needed. It soon became a VolksVair, powered by a completely rebuilt blue printed Corvair Six. Man did it fly. Soon, crooked and incompetent mechanics did it in, it went to junk pile. Next an 86 bus, which died of brain that is heads hemorrhage. Next a Syncro, also a leaker. I had the motor rebuilt and sold it. As I am a slow learner I went for Wolfsburg with a 2.2 Subaru represented as a 1996 Legacy engine, which was later proved to be a 1989. I flew to New York to buy the beast and drove it back after "ambushes" on the way that is breakdowns. I spend uncounted masses of $$ for professional interventions weekly. You can see photos of some of my upgrades here on this site. Anyway after becoming just too friendly with mechanics and two truck drivers I sold the thing and bought a Ford E150 V8. I have not spent a single penny on the Ford and have not visited a single mechanic since or spoke to a tow truck driver. The gas mileage on the Vanagon was not that much better than the V8 and with the literally tens of thousands I spent on Vanagons and the aggravation to to totally uncertain to get anywhere and return I can buy gas for two lifetimes.
So Yes the Vanagon, I do love dearly. It is the best conceived van I ever had, and that includes besides the Ford V8, Renault Estafettes, Fiat 850T, Bedford etc. But reality says NO , Nein, to Vanagons except for masochists, millionaires or dedicated craftsmen. _________________ LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32632 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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SCM wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
Their only practical skill is the ability to write huge checks! Hopefully they also have the skills that earn them huge paychecks as well! |
Sorry to thread drift but I'm getting pretty darn tired of reading these sorts of comments. I'm hardly a 1-percenter but it does in fact take a bit of money to own a garage and tools let alone a "toy" vehicle.
If my only "practical skill" is the ability to write huge checks I'm f-ing happy with that. Try feeding your family and paying a mortgage using whatever "practical skills" you employ to keep your van running. There are a sparse few on this board that can make that claim and at least one of them appears to question whether that is worth continuing.
I enjoy working on my van. I've replaced the fuel tank/lines, coolant system, propane tank, and countless little things. But you know what else I enjoy? Biking, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, fishing, playing music, enjoying a glass of wine, visiting friends, etc etc etc. When the time needed to fix something on my van is going to cut too deeply into the rest of my life it's off to the shop where they can fix the problem while I do other things. Six weeks of my time to do an engine conversion? I simply have no desire to do that - I'm glad my "practical skills" allow me to pay someone else to. |
Dang! I wasn't saying you are inferior people! If you had quoted me fully instead of partially you would see that........
djkeev wrote: |
I pity those poor souls who lack a garage, lack tools and lack any mechanical skills to use tools.
Their only practical skill is the ability to write huge checks! Hopefully they also have the skills that earn them huge paychecks as well!
Dave |
I cannot fathom owning one of these vehicles and lack the skills, time or tools to fix it!
Ill repeat, I pity the poor souls in this position and I hope your paychecks are well above average.
You assume that I don't have a life because I can and do fix my own cars. This statement is Almost funny!
Not only do I have a life, I have $$'s in my wallet to spend on trips and other fun activities BECAUSE I can and do the needed repairs myself.
I'd much rather do a job and buy $200 worth of tools than pay a shop $200 in labor. By doing so, I have value in my hand, ready to use the next time as needed.
Repeat this process for 50 years and you've got a full tool box and every repairs keeps cash in your pocket.
Happy Trails! Matters not if you wrench yourself or pay for wrenching services.
Sorry to touch a nerve!
Honestly, there are days when I WISH I had the ability to earn a huge paycheck to pay for the services rendered by others!
There are days that wrenching gets old!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Money Machine |
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VisPacem wrote: |
zeekiel wrote: |
Well I guess the rumors are true that these vans are more expensive than a Ferrari. I've kinda always known it just from being an owner. But my head gasket blew. My mechanic said it failed the head gasket test? .. Also, when you turn my van on the temp gauge immediately goes all the way to maximum hot.
Anyways, Im having a hard time finding the next logical step. from my understanding these are my options as I don't have a garage and only basic tools and basic car knowledge.
1. Rocky mountain westy 2.2 conversion $12,000..3 year warranty
2. Replace heads $2,000 but im just putting new parts on an old engine and who knows how long that will last again.
3. Replace with Remanu motor from Bus depot $4,500 no warranty
4. buy a high milage subaru motor and have my mechanic install. prob around $7,000
5. Try to sell the van with blown heads, who knows how long that would take. and im moving at the end of this month.
I paid $6,000 for the van. and I love my van. but this is starting to get ridiculous. Am I missing any options. What would you do? This has been sad and frustrating.
Welcoming any comments!! |
..... But reality says NO , Nein, to Vanagons except for masochists, millionaires or dedicated craftsmen. |
I remember you sold your vanagon a long time ago, so you came back to post this?"Just say no to vanagons?"
Geesh..... _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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photogdave Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 3053 Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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djkeev wrote: |
Ill repeat, I pity the poor souls in this position and I hope your paychecks are well above average.
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I'm sorry but no matter how you write it, this comes off as offensive to me, and possibly others like me in the same position.
I am coming up on ten years of Vanagon ownership and ten years on The Samba. I don't have a garage, good tools or any mechanical experience. I used to have a half-decent paying job but coincidentally not long after getting my syncro, I spent a year unemployed and another working part-time.
With the help of this forum, and more recently some good friends with some proper tools, I have been able to tackle some of the repairs and maintenance but the majority of the big jobs go to a mechanic, like many other vehicles.
If I had a regular car that doesn't hold its value I would have well and truly been pissing money away but luckily these rigs hold their value well.
So if I can keep one of these going for nearly ten years with limited resources than anyone can.
No pity thanks; and I'm not a poor soul but hopefully a rich spirit. _________________ 89 Syncro GL Westfalia 2.1 WBX/WBXaustSS
My Westy Movies:
photogdave On Vimeo
photogdave On YouTube
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Steelhead Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007 Posts: 1791 Location: Kentfield, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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djkeev wrote: |
I'd much rather do a job and buy $200 worth of tools than pay a shop $200 in labor.
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Total agree with this philosophy. Although sometimes in my case its $200 in new tools, plus another $200 in wasted used parts, and then $200 to have my mechanic bail me out. _________________ '77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper) |
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Gruppe B Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 1331
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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photogdave wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
Ill repeat, I pity the poor souls in this position and I hope your paychecks are well above average.
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I'm sorry but no matter how you write it, this comes off as offensive to me, and possibly others like me in the same position.
I am coming up on ten years of Vanagon ownership and ten years on The Samba. I don't have a garage, good tools or any mechanical experience. I used to have a half-decent paying job but coincidentally not long after getting my syncro, I spent a year unemployed and another working part-time.
With the help of this forum, and more recently some good friends with some proper tools, I have been able to tackle some of the repairs and maintenance but the majority of the big jobs go to a mechanic, like many other vehicles.
If I had a regular car that doesn't hold its value I would have well and truly been pissing money away but luckily these rigs hold their value well.
So if I can keep one of these going for nearly ten years with limited resources than anyone can.
No pity thanks; and I'm not a poor soul but hopefully a rich spirit. |
I have no issue with those who don't want to wrench, as long as they don't endlessly complain about the cost..... Ooooh expensive likea Ferrari
Link
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