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northband Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2013 Posts: 166 Location: Defiance
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: GoWesty 1.5" Lift Springs - more tippy? |
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Hi - I'm going to be replacing my shocks and springs along with doing a 16" wheel upgrade and was wondering if going with the 1.5" lift is going to make the westy too tippy on curves. Kind of like jeeps being narrow and easier to roll over.
Maybe not an issue but something I'm wondering before spending the time/money. |
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Bman Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 895 Location: South Coast, Oregon
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: HI! |
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Although I have a set of GW lift springs, I have yet to decide on which 2WD T3 I will put them on; 1.) the 89 Camper, or 2.) the 84 Doka.
What I do know is that on the 89 camper I've had stock, lowering and custom lift springs on them. Stock, I had the classic westy lean on the front driver side. Lowering springs, the van hugged the road and the wife loved the ride, custom high, the van is prone to rolling and taking fast curves a little uneasy. The custom springs are HIGH, I am now moving toward lowering the Westy a little to improve handling, but still maintain as much clearance as I can. GW Springs?, the touching of the coils are a concern, but they are also one of the most widely available brands out there for a lift job.
So this information was shared to give you a sense that the higher you go the more top heavy and prone to leaning you will experience. _________________ ~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"
2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: HI! |
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We installed these on ours, and it was tipping UNTIL we added a 1" front sway bar. Now it's the way it should be. I consider the sway bar a must if you lift it, especially if you pack stuff up high (on the roof) like we do. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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joseph928 Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011 Posts: 2114 Location: flagstaff az.
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:50 pm Post subject: springs & shocks |
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OK I know I have a Syncro, but we put on the GW 2 inch lift and it felt a little uneasy in the turns. Then went to Old Man Emu shocks from stock shocks and that made all the difference! And then went from 14 inch to 15 and 215-75-15 BFG and that helped to. _________________ 1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug. |
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jbnova Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2010 Posts: 118 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I did the 1.5" GoWesty springs with 16" Mefros, Bilstein HD shocks, and 215, 70, 16 Cooper Discoverer tires. I only noticed improved handling, not worse. The springs are a bit more stiff than stock.
I agree with the suggestion to beef up the sway bar. I plan to do this myself as soon as Chris at T3 Technique has his sway bar in the retail chain. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender
2wd; Bostig RG3
GoWesty (H&R) 1.5" Lift Springs + 0.5" pad in rear.
Bilstein Shocks
16" Mefros, Cooper Discoverer AT3 (215-70-16) |
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northband Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2013 Posts: 166 Location: Defiance
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'm thinking on going with the Van Cafe 2wd Spring Kit. From what they state it gives a moderate lift which is what I'm after. I'm afraid the GW 1.5 may be a bit much for my liking. |
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Jon_slider Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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> I'm going to be replacing my shocks and springs along with doing a 16" wheel upgrade
can we explore this a bit, piece by piece?
Why are you changing 3 things at once?
1. Changing shocks alone could be sufficient to improve your ride and handling.
2. Taller springs are best used IF you need more offroad clearance, such as with a syncro, otherwise, they cost you in gas mileage and handling, which may not be justified.
3. Going to 16" rims means you will need to pick a tire that meets Vanagon load specs. Have you decided on a tire size model yet? (Please dont say Hydroedge)
Think about what your goal for the changes are, you could be making yourself spend money you don't need to, for an assumed goal that is not yet clearly stated. _________________ My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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northband Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2013 Posts: 166 Location: Defiance
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Good question Jon -
I just got this westy - its an '86 original owner and around 93k miles. Its pretty saggy, rolls like a whale, and the tires are worn. I don't like the small 14"s so want to go bigger.
Since I'm going to be changing rubber I figure change the wheel, upgrade. Since its saggy I figure may as well swap the shocks and springs.
As far as wheel I am having a hard time deciding between 15x6.5 or 16x7.5. I found a set of each. As far as rubber I've been looking at different variations but mostly Mich Defenders based upon the what GoWesty offers.
That's where my mind is - of course my pocket book is a consideration too. The wheels are off an older mercedes so I can get a deal on them - but may have to purchase some spacers and hardware to make it work. However, even with the extra costs I'm still under what it would be if I bought a fresh set from a place like GW. |
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HoustonPhotog Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2013 Posts: 1514 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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good info on the sway bar... might have to add that too!
87 westy
i have the GW 1.5" lift & Bilstein shocks. 16" wheels and 215 70 16 BFG tires and it definitely feels more tippy per say but i think its better than it was with stock springs. stock springs were much softer and had a lot more body roll.
I did have to replace the 2 rear axles. shortly after the lift, within a few hundred miles one CV boot went out and spewed grease everywhere. GoWesty recommended replacing both axles since the axle geometery has changed a lot. i means the cv joints have seated over the past 20+ years and the new angle apparently was not good. GW said new axles will let CV joints seat at new geometry and work better in the long run.
wish i knew that when i bought my springs i would have ordered new axles as well. _________________ Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now |
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Jon_slider Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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> I just got this westy
Congratulations!
> Its pretty saggy,
springs wont change sag, you need shims for that. Sag is caused by weight differences, and shims will be needed even with new springs.
> rolls like a whale
shocks will help a lot, springs dont have anything to do with it
> and the tires are worn. I don't like the small 14"s so want to go bigger.
most important is getting a tire that is rated for a light truck.. If you put some Hankook RA08 on your 14's it will transform your ride
http://www.busdepot.com/ra08
> Since I'm going to be changing rubber I figure change the wheel, upgrade.
> Since its saggy I figure may as well swap the shocks and springs.
as long as the wheel is still within Vanagon spec. That does not include mercedes wheels, and does not include wheels wider than 6.5"
> As far as wheel I am having a hard time deciding between 15x6.5 or 16x7.5.
definitely not x7.5!
> Mich Defenders based upon the what GoWesty offers.
GW is notorious for using tires that are not light truck rated, including those defenders
If you want to get serious about tires, in 15" I recommend Michellin Agilis
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Agilis
look at the 102 load rating, that is a very good road tire (as long as your van does not see snow, otherwise, get Nokian from Van-Cafe), I run it on my 2wd westy.
Since you need tires, I suggest you buy RA08's and love your existing rims and gearing. Bigger tires rob your motor of effective gearing power.
Since you mention roll, get new shocks, they will completely transform the roll resistance of your suspension. It is NOT the springs.
Since you mention Sag, get shims, they will level your corners, nothing else will.
Im taking the time to post this advice because imho, many people think body roll is a need for springs, when imo, its a need for shocks, and properly rated tires.
save the money you would have spent on springs and wheels, to use for gas
and if you can, share a photo of your new ride _________________ My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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northband Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2013 Posts: 166 Location: Defiance
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent post - I think I'm going to wait on the wheel upgrade for when I replace the motor. I want to eventually do the Subaru conversion - perhaps then I'll bump up the wheels to 15".
In the meantime I'll get the suggested 14" tires. Though I may get some Vanagon 14" alloys for the look - we'll see.
That's good news on the springs - I'll get some shims and shocks and go from there.
I'll definitely put the savings to use via other upgrades like brakes, body, seals, etc...
Here are some pics of 'Lady'
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Jon_slider Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10252 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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At 93k, I'd be surprised if your original springs are saggy. Springs last a long time unless abused. Shocks however, will age due to the use of rubber which loses its seal and thus the damping fluid over time. So I'd consider new shocks and then see how you like it. Lifts to me generally result in a mishmash of some things better, and a lot of things worse. It is technically difficult to raise the center of gravity of a vehicle and keep its handling as brisk as original. People on here often do a lift and then insist it handles "better" but I will contend that a fresh stock factory Vanagon would outhandle a lifted one and resist rollover in an emergency waaaaaay better. You'll never get someone who's just spent $2500 on a lift to agree, but there you have it from someone who's done suspension development at the factory level.
Personally, I'd go with new shocks and check things over for loose bushings in the steering and suspension and I bet you'll be happy. Spend the money saved on a thorough mechanical freshening so you can go wherever you want without worries...
DougM _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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northband Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2013 Posts: 166 Location: Defiance
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks!
Regarding shims - where and how do I know what ones to get? Any suggestions? |
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Jon_slider Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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northband wrote: |
Thanks!
Regarding shims - where and how do I know what ones to get? Any suggestions? |
Van-Cafe has them. They are 1/2" thick.
Go measure your Van at each corner. From fender lip to protruding top edge of hub cap is fine, just be consistent which spot you pick (normally people pick wheel center, but your caps dont have center marks). My guess is you will want 2 shims at driver rear, and 1 shim at passenger rear, since you have a westy. Shimming a Driver Rear not only lifts that corner, it also lowers the diagonal opposite, in this case the passenger front. Post your measurements and I will give you a more accurate guess _________________ My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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I should add that when I added the springs, I first drove with new stiff shocks, and 16" Merc wheels with 107/109 rated Nokians.
The upgraded sway bar was added after the first trip, and was a very drastic improvement. Night/day.
However, ours is very heavily loaded, YMMV. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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SSWesty Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2008 Posts: 732 Location: Bellevue
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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If you are getting lift springs for off-road travels consider 15" rims. When the going gets rough you can air down to get a bit more cushion out of the tire sidewall. With 16" rims you have less sidewall to work with however if you will be staying on the street 16" rims have some advantages. |
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kryptkat Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2008 Posts: 236
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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This is my setup, GW1.5" lift, Adjustable Fox Show, and all I can say is that the handling is phenomenal. Van is riding on BFG All Terrain 215/75/15. The ticket is the adjustable Fox Shocks. For city streets, I dial the adjustment knob as high as possible and there's a predictable pitch during aggressive cornering. Never any concern of it rolling. For off roading, I dial the setting back to #1 or #2 and it just absorbed the road like a soft sponge. I also believe the my wheels offsetting has some contribution to the handling. They are offset at near zero, which pushes the wheels out close to 2" from stock. GW really did their homework on this setup. I highly recommend it.
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Royb Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2008 Posts: 228 Location: Sierra Foothills
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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I recently put in the GW lift springs with 5+ yr old Bilsteins on my 2wd with stock wheels. Neither change was remarkably different, and the lift isn't crazy, but I like it. I noticed the new springs still porpoise quite a bit when I brake hard, but again, I think about the same as stock. Eventually I plan to upsize the wheels. _________________ 1991 Westy |
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goffoz Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 1486
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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OK ..now thats a sweet van...very nice
Tell me about those vents? |
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