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ZanaEvyPapa
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will take Option C if the price is competitive. Thanks for taking this on! Smile
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juanl
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested in either A or B option.
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beteljuze
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with costal cat, the ac in my 87 is freezing, I never set the fan speed higher than 2. I few years back there was a thread on another site about modifying the fan/vent area to make the air come out more directly. I had done this on my old van and it worked fine. I also had made a setup similiar to what costal cat is talking about, running a tube upfront. This also worked well. But really, the system works well when it is operating correctly. Think of it this way: You are talking about spending alot of coin for front ac, but in your other cars, do you really have the vents blow right on you? I also drive an Element and a Tahoe. I never have the vents directly blowing on me-its too damn cold. I face them into the interior which stays cold. That's how the Vanagon system works. After 3-4 minutes of driving the interior is cold, there's no need to have it blowing right in your face!
In both the Vanagons I've owned a correctly operating ac was the top priority when I was looking to buy. The system works great as it is. For all that money and all that dash modification, do you really need the air blowing in your face? I guarantee you will turn the vents away after 3 minutes of driving-than it will be doing the same thing the system is doing now-keeping the interior cool!
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yycwesty
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unit C for me..Have a 85 non-ac with subie conversion

Al


Last edited by yycwesty on Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Atadloco
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interested in option C. 85 with no AC and a Subie 2.5.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beteljuze wrote:
I have to agree with costal cat, the ac in my 87 is freezing, I never set the fan speed higher than 2. I few years back there was a thread on another site about modifying the fan/vent area to make the air come out more directly. I had done this on my old van and it worked fine. I also had made a setup similiar to what costal cat is talking about, running a tube upfront. This also worked well. But really, the system works well when it is operating correctly. Think of it this way: You are talking about spending alot of coin for front ac, but in your other cars, do you really have the vents blow right on you? I also drive an Element and a Tahoe. I never have the vents directly blowing on me-its too damn cold. I face them into the interior which stays cold. That's how the Vanagon system works. After 3-4 minutes of driving the interior is cold, there's no need to have it blowing right in your face!
In both the Vanagons I've owned a correctly operating ac was the top priority when I was looking to buy. The system works great as it is. For all that money and all that dash modification, do you really need the air blowing in your face? I guarantee you will turn the vents away after 3 minutes of driving-than it will be doing the same thing the system is doing now-keeping the interior cool!


Well, I guess people are different!

My reason for wanting in dash AC is because I almost always have the vents directed at me! Nothing worse than being hot without a stream of cool air blowing over you!

The only time my dash vents get redirected is when one of my daughters drives my car! They shut them off, aim them differently......grrrrrr!

AC not coming out of the dash is unacceptable to me.

In the Winter....... I want warm air coming out of those dash vents!

Dave
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another plug for Option B. Wife has MS and it's critical to be able to cool her down every so often. Thanks Howesight.
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ThankYouJerry
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another expressing interest in a "B kit".
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mtnhome
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possible vote for option C, I too have an 84 Westy with no ac and in the middle of a Subaru conversion. Now I wish I hadn't let the ac stuff go to the crusher with the donor carcass...
This would make the desert trips even better.
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uther
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course everything depends on money but I'd be interested in option 'B".
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shepherdsond
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "C" kit would interest me. I am not to keen on the radio mount but there are some other options for that I guess..
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a picture of my completed Vintage Air III system. I contacted Blake about his install. It was unclear if the second instrument cluster was required. It was not.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a remote radio I used. It has FM, AM, WB, Sirius, USB, and I phone inputs. It also has a remote for when laying in the top.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The dash air is barely adequate on it's own. Yesterday driving into the sun with ambient of 92 I was reading 82F on the front floor at the same time. Still you have cool air blowing directly on you and the windows are up. If the clouds come out or it rains, it will freeze you out in 5 minutes. I a thinking about a 3m clear tint for the windshield to reduce the heat.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rsxsr wrote:
Here is a picture of my completed Vintage Air III system. I contacted Blake about his install. It was unclear if the second instrument cluster was required. It was not.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The dash air is barely adequate on it's own. Yesterday driving into the sun with ambient of 92 I was reading 82F on the front floor at the same time. Still you have cool air blowing directly on you and the windows are up. If the clouds come out or it rains, it will freeze you out in 5 minutes. I a thinking about a 3m clear tint for the windshield to reduce the heat.


That's a really CLEAN install! You should be proud of yourself!

Did you document what you did? Photos? Expense? Did you have factory A/C already? What engine do you have? So many questions! Smile

I really want to know more, my Vintage Air catalogue just came about 15 minutes ago........

What turned me off to using this unit was the 2nd dash pod for the radio. I want a clean factory look, not an added on look.

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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shizzon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

which system do you have. gen ii or gen iv?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vintage air catalog is hard to view online. It appears I installed a Gen II unit with 4 dash outlets, two defrost outlets and the heater core. A member did document here the Gen IV unit after I completed mine. I thought about that version, but was concerned it might be too tight and Blake had done all the fitment work for the Gen II.

The van shipped new without out AC. I have a TDI engine and used the TDI AC compressor. I found adapter fittings to conventional AC lines. My costs were inline with Blake's. I did not keep that close of a track on the cost.

I took only a few pictures since Blake had already posted up very easy to follow documentation and photos. I altered the relay location since I needed to access them if there was a problem without pulling the dash. I also used bulkhead fittings for the freon lines, so that I could finish the interior install as one project and get the van back on the road quickly till the project was fully completed.

Edit: I spent more time insulating the dashboard underside and the front firewall than installing the evaporator. That was very tedious to do. I used a layer of B quiet and topped it with dynamat insulation. The huge windshield lets in a ton of heat and the dashboard is a giant heat sync. I also insulated with B quiet the complete radiator tunnel from the outside. I also used the next size up condensor over what Blake used.

Edit 2: Thanks for the compliment. I wanted a stock appearance as well and was concerned by Blake's final look. Here is a picture where you can notice the controls below the steering wheel and a mock up of the Evaporator. All relays and fuses ended up on the knee bar.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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shepherdsond
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great install, good to know that it can be done so nicely with off the shelf components. What is the model name and brand of your remote radio, I searched but could not find anything like it, it does not allow you to play CD's (i.e. audio books) presumably..
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Sir Sam
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:


I have actually been curious as to how much interest there would be if I made a kit for this install. I would have to get a plastics shop to make an injection mold or make a fibreglass mold to replicate the tight fit needed for the evaporator box.

I would do two different kits, perhaps three. The "A" kit would be for installing front AC in a vanagon with factory AC. The "B" kit would also be for a factory AC Vanagon, but allow the user to retain the rear AC and add the front AC unit. The "C" kit would be for front AC on a non-AC van.

The idea would be to provide a complete kit for any such install together with proper instructions. Anyone wanting to replicate my design in my thread (see here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535444&highlight=diy+front+air+conditioning ) is welcome to do so, (if you are as frugal as me), but I think there might be some interest in a plug-and-play solution for the Vanagon. This would not be a charity for me, but I would price competitively.

Anyone installing a front AC system has to take into account the tremendous importance of re-sealing the factory heater/air distribution box to prevent ambient air ingress and installing a proper heater control valve to keep all hot coolant out of the front heater core.


I would be interested in that A or B kit for one or two vanagons.

One cheap solution for making a heater box would be to vacuum form plastic over a mold the right shape, this is much cheaper than injection molding and can be cobbled together out of household parts such as a toaster and a vacuum.

Make a mold and then heat and vacuum form ABS plastic.

What is that bit of plastic you have holding your radio now?
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furrylittleotter
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:
Red Beard wrote:
I think it would be AWESOME to move the stock rear AC to the front, thus freeing up the overhead storage space in the back. I would spend up to $350 on a kit to do this.


Hi Redbeard:

There is no way I could meet that price point with an actual plug and play kit. Part of the reason is the front AC install does involve long hose runs and fittings I would supply and the barrier hose is not cheap. I would also want people to have a reliable, long-lasting system, meaning a focus on eliminating possible failure points. I think the aftermarket units are a good stop-gap, but the ducting is inadequate for really high air flow out of the vents, which is why I put a lot of effort into large, smooth ducting and a large evaporator fan on my prototype.

For those wanting to have both the factory rear AC and front AC, the layout would involve using a solenoid valve in the liquid line to control refrigerant flow to the existing rear evaporator, enabling it to be left switched off and/or set at a lower temperature setting when desired. The suction line would also have to be extended all the way to the front evaporator. The receiver/drier would be re-located near the condenser, and the front evaporator would use a CCOT system and an accumulator.

There would be two separate thermostats.The solenoid valve would be connected electrically to the factory thermostat for the rear evaporator instead of having the rear AC thermostat control the compressor function. Compressor on/off cycling would be controlled by the front evaporator thermostat. You could not run the rear evaporator unless the front AC evaporator was being used. This is the way most dual zone front/rear systems are set up, since there is always a driver in front, but not always rear passengers.

In testing on our trip to the Bay area in August, we encountered 95 degree ambient in a few spots with a bright sun adding to the mid-day heat load. By aiming the centre ducts rearward and having the front evaporator blower fan on highest speed (an admittedly loud setting), our ornery teenager in the back bench seat was comfortably cool. By this I intend to dissuade all who do not live in exceedingly hot areas to add rear AC unless they are really certain they need it.

Anyway, before we all get too carried away, I need to do a few calculations before getting even a rough sense of price IF I decided to create and offer such a kit.

Anyone with a non-AC or non-Syncro vanagon would also find that they have the smaller, weaker, rad fan and should upgrade to the larger version.


Just in case you do not know this, you can simply "T" the line and run both front and rear evaporator coils.

Everyone will tell you this will not work, that you need to upsize the compressor or the condensing coil but it actually can be done, for sure.

Yesterday I removed my stereo in preparation for taking the subaru condensing unit out from under my rear seat and stuffing it in the dash. I know it won't fit but I have no problem modifying my dash. I want it flat anyway.
In case you are interested, I just plug my Iphone right into my amplifier now and listen to Pandora and iTunes using the iPhone volume control...I have no need for a stereo unit anymore. They are so 1984.

I completely agree the heat from the windshield is an incredible heat load. I intend to blow plenty of cool air directly on mine.
Neil2
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shepherdsond wrote:
Great install, good to know that it can be done so nicely with off the shelf components. What is the model name and brand of your remote radio, I searched but could not find anything like it, it does not allow you to play CD's (i.e. audio books) presumably..


It is a Clarion stereo from their Marine selection. The weather band does come in handy when camping. For books on CD, I have to rip them to a thumbdrive before we get on the road. It is a bit tedious to do, but works well. Here is a link to the unit.
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products/2011/marine/...40488.html

I looked at the Secret Audio system, but it had poor reviews at the time I was looking.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A link to a Gen IV Vintage Air installation......

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...mp;start=0
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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