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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: Longblock made in Brazil -for ethanol? |
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Ok I bought a new brazilian 1600dp longblock that I planed to fit in my 68' bay fairly stock. Engine letter UF.. which i thougt to be a 1600dp made for gasoline. But now that I started examine the engine it's seems to be for ethanol. Heads are (what I can read) 040 101 375 16, 6 fins and somewhat special. Plugs are w9dc. A search here gave me that they are high compression, small cc and matched doomed pistons for ethanol? Any one got more info about the engine? Next Q what to do with it? I guess build it like a stock 1600dp is out of question? Can I build it as a good option for a bay? Sorry about my bad english!
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Longblock made in Brazil -for ethanol? |
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remove the head on one side, cc the chambers, and do a quick calc and figure the CR, then report back here. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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Cptn. Calzone Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2007 Posts: 1855 Location: S>E>Alabama
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: bus |
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The fibre washer or nylon washer on the rocker shaft is interesting, will it live in heat and oil? _________________ 71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse |
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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:50 am Post subject: |
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IF those are the heads you have. Like I said, remove one and verify.
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, looks like you have two choices -
1. Run the engine as is on alcohol. Either E85 or make your own still.
2. Buy another set of heads. Even if you could open those heads up enough to lower CR, you'd have to live with 6 fins in a Bay... _________________ There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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Eaallred Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Quokka42 wrote: |
Well, looks like you have two choices -
1. Run the engine as is on alcohol. Either E85 or make your own still.
2. Buy another set of heads. Even if you could open those heads up enough to lower CR, you'd have to live with 6 fins in a Bay... |
I agree. 20% of head cooling is gone. _________________ Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have never known for sure where those odd rocker spacers come from. And there they are!
Thank you for confirming this! |
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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Well I guess I've to remove one of the heads at least out of curiosity. But with the less numbers of fins, can it be other than ethanol heads?
If they turn out to be maybe I go for ethanol/ E85. What do they run these with in Brazil? Carbs or injection? |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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You said this is new. Is this new from VW? I see that it has cool tins on it. Just wondering if it's a factory built Type I engine with cool tins since many have said that the Type I cooling system doesn't work as well with them. Now do we see here a factory built engine with them? |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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cool tins were factory installed on 73 squarebacks,for more uniform cylinder cooling on the lean F.I. system on the heavy car |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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volksworld wrote: |
cool tins were factory installed on 73 squarebacks,for more uniform cylinder cooling on the lean F.I. system on the heavy car |
But, isn't this supposed to be a Type I engine? (Type III production stopped a long time ago.) And IF they would cool better on a Type I, F.I. wouldn't matter. They either cool better or they don't. The argument has always been that the cool tins weren't designed for the airflow characteristics of the upright Type I fan and cooling system. I'm just wondering if this is a VW Factory-built engine for a Type I, and if it is, why does it have the cool tins if they don't work as well as the normally seen Type I lower cylinder air deflectors? |
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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Cool didn't even think about the cool tin, haven't payed much attention to the engine before (has been wrapped up in the garage). Yes it's a new factory (vw Brazil) built late type 1 engine. So that makes the old statement "(super) cool tins where never used on the type 1 by vw" somewhat dizzy? One could argue that it's universal case, but it isn't prepared for the type3 oil stick. So I guess in Brazil they did? On the other hand what about the goofy nylon washers on the rockers?
Done some more research on brazilian pages. Engine number UF is a 1600 fusca (type1) engine made for gasoline, 1 carburetor. Cylinder heads with 6 fins are "modern" used on later engines. The same 6 fins style heads are used on both gasoline and alcohol engines, but with different pistons. The pistons/cylinders are special for this 6 fin heads and you can't combine new pist/cyl with old 8 fin heads (or vice versa).
This info can be 100% wrong, my portuguese is worse than my english
Maybe they heard about the "super cool tin" and thought "-let's lose two cooling fins!"
One more thing it looks like a dual relief case but the 2nd isn't drilled!
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Quokka42 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010 Posts: 3117 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, they do things a bit weird down there - but they grow excellent coffee and put on good parades. I'm afraid I can't help you with the Portugese, all mine comes from Nando's. _________________ There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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BEATAV8 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2013 Posts: 14 Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
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Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: |
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if it is an ethanol engine it would be a great one to have here in Illinois. We have E85 on almost every street corner....
it would be a peppy little motor with the high compression ratio. |
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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Well it seems like it's for gasoline after all. Same heads on gas and ethanol engines only different pistons makes the differens in CR. The ethanol have a gigantic dome and the gas is dished. When I get the time I will remove one of the heads to confirm this as suggested. Found this pistons that are supposed to be ones in the UF engine.
My theory is that the head looks like it does because of ethanol (higher compression rate), and it was cheapier to make one head and use different pistons to alter the CR? Compared to the brasilian climate I guess a swedish summer is like the ice age, so they can't have been that bothered about over heating with only 6 fins.. even in a bay. The "cool tin" might be a way to cool the 6 fin heads better? I've heard their questionable use and overal cooling on a type I but that they might help the cooling of the heads, and here it's seems that's exactly what vw brazil think. |
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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Just for the information, removed a plug and looked down the barrel and the pistons looks like the one in the picture above. |
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vwfanatic67 Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2003 Posts: 427 Location: Warner Robins, GA
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Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: |
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If anyone needs a set of these heads. I have a brand new set. _________________ "white trash but worth every cent"
SBS #74
52 Split Beetle
60 Panel
65 Notchback
More if my wife would let me! |
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R-Baja Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2008 Posts: 164 Location: Out West
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hot VWs Magazine did a cylinder head buyers guide in one of their issues,December 2010, and it shows the 6 fin head made in Brazil with 35x32.5 valves and high compression combustion chambers. Original VW/AUDI casting. |
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Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Longblock made in Brazil -for ethanol? |
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Photobucket photos now added here
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