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ZanaEvyPapa
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 255
Location: Gainesville, FL
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 Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I will take Option C if the price is competitive. Thanks for taking this on! 
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82 Diesel Westy
03 Jetta TDI
Gainesville, FL |
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juanl
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2012
Posts: 47
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be interested in either A or B option.
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'90 Westy "Kurt" |
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beteljuze
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2002
Posts: 180
Location: lindenhurst,NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with costal cat, the ac in my 87 is freezing, I never set the fan speed higher than 2. I few years back there was a thread on another site about modifying the fan/vent area to make the air come out more directly. I had done this on my old van and it worked fine. I also had made a setup similiar to what costal cat is talking about, running a tube upfront. This also worked well. But really, the system works well when it is operating correctly. Think of it this way: You are talking about spending alot of coin for front ac, but in your other cars, do you really have the vents blow right on you? I also drive an Element and a Tahoe. I never have the vents directly blowing on me-its too damn cold. I face them into the interior which stays cold. That's how the Vanagon system works. After 3-4 minutes of driving the interior is cold, there's no need to have it blowing right in your face!
In both the Vanagons I've owned a correctly operating ac was the top priority when I was looking to buy. The system works great as it is. For all that money and all that dash modification, do you really need the air blowing in your face? I guarantee you will turn the vents away after 3 minutes of driving-than it will be doing the same thing the system is doing now-keeping the interior cool! |
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yycwesty
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 403
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Unit C for me..Have a 85 non-ac with subie conversion
Al
Last edited by yycwesty on Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Atadloco
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2012
Posts: 254
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Very interested in option C. 85 with no AC and a Subie 2.5. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32597
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| beteljuze wrote: |
I have to agree with costal cat, the ac in my 87 is freezing, I never set the fan speed higher than 2. I few years back there was a thread on another site about modifying the fan/vent area to make the air come out more directly. I had done this on my old van and it worked fine. I also had made a setup similiar to what costal cat is talking about, running a tube upfront. This also worked well. But really, the system works well when it is operating correctly. Think of it this way: You are talking about spending alot of coin for front ac, but in your other cars, do you really have the vents blow right on you? I also drive an Element and a Tahoe. I never have the vents directly blowing on me-its too damn cold. I face them into the interior which stays cold. That's how the Vanagon system works. After 3-4 minutes of driving the interior is cold, there's no need to have it blowing right in your face!
In both the Vanagons I've owned a correctly operating ac was the top priority when I was looking to buy. The system works great as it is. For all that money and all that dash modification, do you really need the air blowing in your face? I guarantee you will turn the vents away after 3 minutes of driving-than it will be doing the same thing the system is doing now-keeping the interior cool! |
Well, I guess people are different!
My reason for wanting in dash AC is because I almost always have the vents directed at me! Nothing worse than being hot without a stream of cool air blowing over you!
The only time my dash vents get redirected is when one of my daughters drives my car! They shut them off, aim them differently......grrrrrr!
AC not coming out of the dash is unacceptable to me.
In the Winter....... I want warm air coming out of those dash vents!
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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singler3360
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 1191
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Another plug for Option B. Wife has MS and it's critical to be able to cool her down every so often. Thanks Howesight. |
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ThankYouJerry
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012
Posts: 2271
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Another expressing interest in a "B kit". |
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mtnhome 
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 496
Location: Summit County, CO
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| Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Another possible vote for option C, I too have an 84 Westy with no ac and in the middle of a Subaru conversion. Now I wish I hadn't let the ac stuff go to the crusher with the donor carcass...
This would make the desert trips even better.
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'84 Westy, '93 Subaru ej22 and Subarugears 5speed
Build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763098&highlight= |
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rowan
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007
Posts: 131
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Of course everything depends on money but I'd be interested in option 'B".
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Rowan
89 Syncro - Juniper Mackenzie
09 Honda Fit - Finnie
17 Ram ProMaster - John Hordle |
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shepherdsond
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2005
Posts: 439
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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A "C" kit would interest me. I am not to keen on the radio mount but there are some other options for that I guess..
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87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517 |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17122
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Here is a picture of my completed Vintage Air III system. I contacted Blake about his install. It was unclear if the second instrument cluster was required. It was not.
Here is a remote radio I used. It has FM, AM, WB, Sirius, USB, and I phone inputs. It also has a remote for when laying in the top.
The dash air is barely adequate on it's own. Yesterday driving into the sun with ambient of 92 I was reading 82F on the front floor at the same time. Still you have cool air blowing directly on you and the windows are up. If the clouds come out or it rains, it will freeze you out in 5 minutes. I a thinking about a 3m clear tint for the windshield to reduce the heat.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32597
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| rsxsr wrote: |
Here is a picture of my completed Vintage Air III system. I contacted Blake about his install. It was unclear if the second instrument cluster was required. It was not.
The dash air is barely adequate on it's own. Yesterday driving into the sun with ambient of 92 I was reading 82F on the front floor at the same time. Still you have cool air blowing directly on you and the windows are up. If the clouds come out or it rains, it will freeze you out in 5 minutes. I a thinking about a 3m clear tint for the windshield to reduce the heat. |
That's a really CLEAN install! You should be proud of yourself!
Did you document what you did? Photos? Expense? Did you have factory A/C already? What engine do you have? So many questions!
I really want to know more, my Vintage Air catalogue just came about 15 minutes ago........
What turned me off to using this unit was the 2nd dash pod for the radio. I want a clean factory look, not an added on look.
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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shizzon
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2006
Posts: 596
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:59 am Post subject: |
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which system do you have. gen ii or gen iv?
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1989 Bostig Syncro Westy |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17122
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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The vintage air catalog is hard to view online. It appears I installed a Gen II unit with 4 dash outlets, two defrost outlets and the heater core. A member did document here the Gen IV unit after I completed mine. I thought about that version, but was concerned it might be too tight and Blake had done all the fitment work for the Gen II.
The van shipped new without out AC. I have a TDI engine and used the TDI AC compressor. I found adapter fittings to conventional AC lines. My costs were inline with Blake's. I did not keep that close of a track on the cost.
I took only a few pictures since Blake had already posted up very easy to follow documentation and photos. I altered the relay location since I needed to access them if there was a problem without pulling the dash. I also used bulkhead fittings for the freon lines, so that I could finish the interior install as one project and get the van back on the road quickly till the project was fully completed.
Edit: I spent more time insulating the dashboard underside and the front firewall than installing the evaporator. That was very tedious to do. I used a layer of B quiet and topped it with dynamat insulation. The huge windshield lets in a ton of heat and the dashboard is a giant heat sync. I also insulated with B quiet the complete radiator tunnel from the outside. I also used the next size up condensor over what Blake used.
Edit 2: Thanks for the compliment. I wanted a stock appearance as well and was concerned by Blake's final look. Here is a picture where you can notice the controls below the steering wheel and a mock up of the Evaporator. All relays and fuses ended up on the knee bar.
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shepherdsond
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2005
Posts: 439
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Great install, good to know that it can be done so nicely with off the shelf components. What is the model name and brand of your remote radio, I searched but could not find anything like it, it does not allow you to play CD's (i.e. audio books) presumably..
_________________
87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517 |
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Sir Sam
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2009
Posts: 1686
Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Howesight wrote: |
I have actually been curious as to how much interest there would be if I made a kit for this install. I would have to get a plastics shop to make an injection mold or make a fibreglass mold to replicate the tight fit needed for the evaporator box.
I would do two different kits, perhaps three. The "A" kit would be for installing front AC in a vanagon with factory AC. The "B" kit would also be for a factory AC Vanagon, but allow the user to retain the rear AC and add the front AC unit. The "C" kit would be for front AC on a non-AC van.
The idea would be to provide a complete kit for any such install together with proper instructions. Anyone wanting to replicate my design in my thread (see here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535444&highlight=diy+front+air+conditioning ) is welcome to do so, (if you are as frugal as me), but I think there might be some interest in a plug-and-play solution for the Vanagon. This would not be a charity for me, but I would price competitively.
Anyone installing a front AC system has to take into account the tremendous importance of re-sealing the factory heater/air distribution box to prevent ambient air ingress and installing a proper heater control valve to keep all hot coolant out of the front heater core.
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I would be interested in that A or B kit for one or two vanagons.
One cheap solution for making a heater box would be to vacuum form plastic over a mold the right shape, this is much cheaper than injection molding and can be cobbled together out of household parts such as a toaster and a vacuum.
Make a mold and then heat and vacuum form ABS plastic.
What is that bit of plastic you have holding your radio now?
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'91 Carat Westy
87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon |
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furrylittleotter
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: West Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Howesight wrote: |
| Red Beard wrote: |
| I think it would be AWESOME to move the stock rear AC to the front, thus freeing up the overhead storage space in the back. I would spend up to $350 on a kit to do this. |
Hi Redbeard:
There is no way I could meet that price point with an actual plug and play kit. Part of the reason is the front AC install does involve long hose runs and fittings I would supply and the barrier hose is not cheap. I would also want people to have a reliable, long-lasting system, meaning a focus on eliminating possible failure points. I think the aftermarket units are a good stop-gap, but the ducting is inadequate for really high air flow out of the vents, which is why I put a lot of effort into large, smooth ducting and a large evaporator fan on my prototype.
For those wanting to have both the factory rear AC and front AC, the layout would involve using a solenoid valve in the liquid line to control refrigerant flow to the existing rear evaporator, enabling it to be left switched off and/or set at a lower temperature setting when desired. The suction line would also have to be extended all the way to the front evaporator. The receiver/drier would be re-located near the condenser, and the front evaporator would use a CCOT system and an accumulator.
There would be two separate thermostats.The solenoid valve would be connected electrically to the factory thermostat for the rear evaporator instead of having the rear AC thermostat control the compressor function. Compressor on/off cycling would be controlled by the front evaporator thermostat. You could not run the rear evaporator unless the front AC evaporator was being used. This is the way most dual zone front/rear systems are set up, since there is always a driver in front, but not always rear passengers.
In testing on our trip to the Bay area in August, we encountered 95 degree ambient in a few spots with a bright sun adding to the mid-day heat load. By aiming the centre ducts rearward and having the front evaporator blower fan on highest speed (an admittedly loud setting), our ornery teenager in the back bench seat was comfortably cool. By this I intend to dissuade all who do not live in exceedingly hot areas to add rear AC unless they are really certain they need it.
Anyway, before we all get too carried away, I need to do a few calculations before getting even a rough sense of price IF I decided to create and offer such a kit.
Anyone with a non-AC or non-Syncro vanagon would also find that they have the smaller, weaker, rad fan and should upgrade to the larger version. |
Just in case you do not know this, you can simply "T" the line and run both front and rear evaporator coils.
Everyone will tell you this will not work, that you need to upsize the compressor or the condensing coil but it actually can be done, for sure.
Yesterday I removed my stereo in preparation for taking the subaru condensing unit out from under my rear seat and stuffing it in the dash. I know it won't fit but I have no problem modifying my dash. I want it flat anyway.
In case you are interested, I just plug my Iphone right into my amplifier now and listen to Pandora and iTunes using the iPhone volume control...I have no need for a stereo unit anymore. They are so 1984.
I completely agree the heat from the windshield is an incredible heat load. I intend to blow plenty of cool air directly on mine.
Neil2 |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17122
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| shepherdsond wrote: |
| Great install, good to know that it can be done so nicely with off the shelf components. What is the model name and brand of your remote radio, I searched but could not find anything like it, it does not allow you to play CD's (i.e. audio books) presumably.. |
It is a Clarion stereo from their Marine selection. The weather band does come in handy when camping. For books on CD, I have to rip them to a thumbdrive before we get on the road. It is a bit tedious to do, but works well. Here is a link to the unit.
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products/2011/marine/...40488.html
I looked at the Secret Audio system, but it had poor reviews at the time I was looking.
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32597
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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