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Rowroy
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Joined: November 07, 2006
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Location: The ass of nowhere
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 Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: Which fan: welded/balanced Chinese or non-balanced OE VW |
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So, I am building an 1835 for my daily driver. It won't be a high revving engine and I don't plan on beating the snot out of it. I have both of these fans and am not sure which one I should use. The one from So. Cal. is welded and clearly balanced, looks decent, has .015" of runout and is slightly egg-shaped. The OE VW is NON-balanced (despite what CIP1 states), welded, has less than .005" runout, and runs MUCH more true than the one from So. Cal. (i. e. not egg shaped). I am leaning towards the OE VW.
Any thoughts on this?
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/aft...ed-p-12468
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24-113-119-031-BHD
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Quokka42
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Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Are you saying the OE one is out of balance, or that you can't see evidence of the balancing? OE fans were balanced out of the factory, but if it has been welded it should be re-balanced. Balancing is usually achieved with the addition of little weights on the blades, or drilling holes in the sides. I have also seen some notching done. If the OE is not out of balance I think I'd go with that.
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Rowroy
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2006
Posts: 1012
Location: The ass of nowhere
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quokka42 wrote: |
| Are you saying the OE one is out of balance, or that you can't see evidence of the balancing? OE fans were balanced out of the factory, but if it has been welded it should be re-balanced. Balancing is usually achieved with the addition of little weights on the blades, or drilling holes in the sides. I have also seen some notching done. If the OE is not out of balance I think I'd go with that. |
I see no evidence that the OE fan was balanced after welding. The one from So Cal has chalk marks on it and clear signs of material removal - which tells me it is balanced.
A side note: All of the welds on the So Cal fan are ground smooth, while the OE fan welds are not. Does this mean anything? Probably not, but it may be worth noting.
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woodsbuggy
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Joined: December 15, 2007
Posts: 210
Location: NE Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I have personally seen 7k rpm on my offroad buggy with a stock German fan and stock cam. I know that others will say that this is not possible, but it has happened and the stock German fan is still fine several years later. I had an issue with the throttle cable sticking and ended up using a ziptie around the throttle cable and my right foot to finish the weekend. I completely trust a German fan to at least 7K.
Good Luck
Kenric
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fivelugshortaxle
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Joined: May 13, 2011
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Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| woodsbuggy wrote: |
I have personally seen 7k rpm on my offroad buggy with a stock German fan and stock cam. I know that others will say that this is not possible, but it has happened and the stock German fan is still fine several years later. I had an issue with the throttle cable sticking and ended up using a ziptie around the throttle cable and my right foot to finish the weekend. I completely trust a German fan to at least 7K.
Good Luck
Kenric |
How much was the belt slipping
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
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Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| thats a stickey question, nobody can tell you exzactly what will work best, you might have a dead german fan,or a great china fan.or both good. or both bad.I have a crapy china fan that has seen many blasts, and a oe german that has also seen many, the german isant balanced as well as the china fan is( atleast the two I have. I did do a bit of balancing on the german fan to smooth it out more,but it's still not as smooth as the china fan is.If I were to be buying a new one I would probably go with the mexiaco balanced new fan, either welded or not thats up to you. |
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thebucket
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Location: Houston Texas
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craigman
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Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 2397
Location: redding
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen one fan explode. It was a welded one.
I've always ran stock fans and never had a problem. Many 6K revs.
Maybe i'm just lucky!  |
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Rowroy
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Joined: November 07, 2006
Posts: 1012
Location: The ass of nowhere
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| thebucket wrote: |
| Go with Gene Berg, and move on! |
Yeah, this is probably the best way to go, but I already have these two. And I'm not sure I could deal with their crazy lead times, either.
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Altema
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Location: Lower Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'd use the stocker too. Mine sees 5k every day, and 6k once in a while.
Paul |
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77charger
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I got a welded one from someone here in the classifieds i think racinjason? i forgot what vw one he uses but its definitley a good one and has taken the rpm well in my buggy.
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[email protected]
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Which fan: welded/balanced Chinese or non-balanced OE VW |
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you do not need a welded fan if you are using a V-belt, the belt slips bad around 5k RPM and the fan doesn't go any faster, even at 8k RPM engine speed.
If you have a serpentine belt that is a different story. When they first came out there was a rash of exploded fans, because the belt transmits far more power into the fan, and the fan speed is much higher than with a V-belt.
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Rowroy
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Joined: November 07, 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Which fan: welded/balanced Chinese or non-balanced OE VW |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
you do not need a welded fan if you are using a V-belt, the belt slips bad around 5k RPM and the fan doesn't go any faster, even at 8k RPM engine speed.
If you have a serpentine belt that is a different story. When they first came out there was a rash of exploded fans, because the belt transmits far more power into the fan, and the fan speed is much higher than with a V-belt. |
I am just using the stock V-belt. To be honest, I don't really see any benefit to the serpentine setups (aside from looks, I suppose).
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Altema
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Location: Lower Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Which fan: welded/balanced Chinese or non-balanced OE VW |
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| Rowroy wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
you do not need a welded fan if you are using a V-belt, the belt slips bad around 5k RPM and the fan doesn't go any faster, even at 8k RPM engine speed.
If you have a serpentine belt that is a different story. When they first came out there was a rash of exploded fans, because the belt transmits far more power into the fan, and the fan speed is much higher than with a V-belt. |
I am just using the stock V-belt. To be honest, I don't really see any benefit to the serpentine setups (aside from looks, I suppose). |
The benefit is supposed to be that they do not slip, which is actually a bad thing as John points out. |
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[email protected]
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Which fan: welded/balanced Chinese or non-balanced OE VW |
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a Serp system will cool better on the highway, since no slip = more cooling air. And they look nice.
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bugnut68
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Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| woodsbuggy wrote: |
I have personally seen 7k rpm on my offroad buggy with a stock German fan and stock cam. I know that others will say that this is not possible, but it has happened and the stock German fan is still fine several years later. I had an issue with the throttle cable sticking and ended up using a ziptie around the throttle cable and my right foot to finish the weekend. I completely trust a German fan to at least 7K.
Good Luck
Kenric |
I have no doubt that the stock fan will hit 7K but the question is for how long...  Exploded fans do a hell of a lot of damage when such an incident occurs. |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:55 am Post subject: |
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the stock V-belt starts slipping at 4k or so. You can turn the crank pulley at 20k RPM and the fan won't go any faster than it did at 4500.
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AlteWagen
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Hotrodvw
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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I tig'd my OEM fan. Best of both worlds, and no "but what ifs"...
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turbodon1776
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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i tig'd mine with no rod.
had one come apart on me years back while doing timing.
ruined fan, fan shroud, alt stand, oil cooler, fins chipped off head, and took a couple pieces to my body that luckily didnt injure me worse than a few scratches.
it was a freak thing that could have happened on any or the times the engine hit 6 or 7 grand but instead decided to let loose at 2500rpm while i was inches away from it.
ever since then ive run a welded fan for piece of mind.
before i got my tig machine Kustom1 warehouse had the best deal on welded fans FWIW.
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