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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: Steering box Output Shafts |
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Do any of you savvy individuals know if the output shaft 68-72 bus steering boxes, are smaller than the 73-79? Your input would be greatly appreciated! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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they are not the same design and the boxes are not interchangeable without significant modification.
Pitman arms are different
68 - 72 is 211 415 371 B
73 - 79 is 211 415 371 C
Last edited by SGKent on Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:06 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7090 Location: toronto
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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the seal is 1mm smaller on the early box, so yes, i believe the shaft itself is smaller. _________________ SL |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Guys! That is good to know. I bought a TRW Steering box and the shaft on it was larger than the steering box I have on now. I thinking it is a import from somewhere. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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GeorgeO. wrote: |
Thanks Guys! That is good to know. I bought a TRW Steering box and the shaft on it was larger than the steering box I have on now. I thinking it is a import from somewhere. |
probably late bay box. |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Thanks Guys! That is good to know. I bought a TRW Steering box and the shaft on it was larger than the steering box I have on now. I thinking it is a import from somewhere. |
probably late bay box. |
Could be. I'm looking to get it rebuilt and keep the TRW as a spare but I will have to wait until get my retirement disability from the VA. |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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You say it's a TRW so it is a late bay box. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Desertbusman wrote: |
You say it's a TRW so it is a late bay box. |
Let me clarify because I'm in a fog today! I bought a TRW steering box to change out the box in my Bus. The box that I'm now using is adjust to the max and I fear it needs to be rebuilt. When I placed my current drag link arm
was different so I suspected that some years were different. The wealth of knowledge on this site is outstanding and I really appreciated it. |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
they are not the same design and the boxes are not interchangeable without significant modification.
Pitman arms are different
68 - 72 is 211 415 371 B
73 - 79 is 211 415 371 C |
Gonna look for that part and measure it. I think it is something we need to know. Thanks again Kent! |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:31 am Post subject: Steering box Pitman/drop link Nut size not the same. |
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I found out now what is going on. The Pitman arm on the Original equipment and the TRW steering box are the same. How ever the Nut is a different size bigger on the TRW and all I needed was the nut. I have everything now and going to put it together! Gonna get a new puck to mount it up to my steering wheel too. Wish me luck.
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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that looks like a late bay box on the right so I question whether you really have a 68 - 70 bus. From what I understand, the mount points are different on early and late boxes and it takes some modification to make a late box fit an early bay. Also from what I understand, the performance suffers using a late style box in an early bay. Someone capable of fitting a late box to an early bay is also capable of rebuilding an early box to work better than a late box in an early bay from what people who have tried it have told me.
EARLY box
[img][/img] |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
that looks like a late bay box on the right so I question whether you really have a 68 - 70 bus. From what I understand, the mount points are different on early and late boxes and it takes some modification to make a late box fit an early bay. Also from what I understand, the performance suffers using a late style box in an early bay. Someone capable of fitting a late box to an early bay is also capable of rebuilding an early box to work better than a late box in an early bay from what people who have tried it have told me.
EARLY box
[img]
[/img] |
I'm going to fit it tomorrow and see what it looks likes. Some where's on the old box I saw a "'72" in yellow lettering but who knows what the yard worker may have thought. My question is my 73 considered a "early bay"? |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: |
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73 is a late bay. You could have a 1973 model year bus that was built in say October 1972 etc.
Early 1973 model bays took a different size nut on the steering output shaft as the boxes were built by Gemmer in France. The mid 1973 and on boxes were built by ZF in Germany under license from Gemmer.
You need to look at your VIN and M-Code to know the model year. Also the bumpers and lights will give it away. |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: Here is the "M" plate information |
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M-Plate content
Model Type 2 (T2) mod. 231(9) :
- VW Campmobile
- Sliding door right
- LHD
Chassis number 2332150394
Serial number 150 394
Model year 1973
Planned production date Monday, 05 March 1973
Number for production planning
(temporary serial number) 7632
Type of engine Type 4 (CD) - 1679cc, 46 kW (62 bhp DIN)
Type of transmission Manual 4-speed gearbox
Paint color L90D - Pastel White
Remark : Westfalia
Interior color (door panels and seats) 51 - Dark Beige Leatherette
Destination Picked up by first owner at the factory in Germany, meant for US-market
Here is all the skinny on the Camper. Is planned production date a definite date when it was built? |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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George, it doesn't matter. Both of those boxes are late Bay boxes. If the one is what your bus had then you have a late bay as far as the steering is concerned. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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The left gear is a 1973 early box made by Gemmer in France. It has a smaller thread. The one on the right is a standard late 1973 ZF box. Same basic box licensed by Gemmer to ZF.
This is the French made one apart while it was being restored.
This is the late one being restored.
NOS 1982 ZF made box
Brazilian Gear by TRW - similar to Wat Spain unit
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:11 pm Post subject: Installed |
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Kent I just installed the Steering box, and it works like champ. In one of your pics you have plastic collar on the output shaft. What is that for?
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Installed |
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GeorgeO. wrote: |
Kent I just installed the Steering box, and it works like champ. In one of your pics you have plastic collar on the output shaft. What is that for? |
The early 73 box came with one. The later boxes do not. Best guess is to keep debris off the seal. |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, it keeps dirt from messing up that output seal, that makes sense. Are the 73 boxes rebuildable? I would like to take the one I pull out and get it rebuilt for those just in case and to have a spare on hand. |
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helno Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2014 Posts: 9 Location: Kincardine Ontario
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
The left gear is a 1973 early box made by Gemmer in France. It has a smaller thread. The one on the right is a standard late 1973 ZF box. Same basic box licensed by Gemmer to ZF.
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I just pulled one of these out of my 77' that had sloppy steering.
Input shaft lower bearing failed.
This one that german supply sells is it the same as the one newer one pictured earlier? What size and tread is the nut?
http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=17620 |
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