Air to air intercooler in D pillar ideas please!

[lloydy]

Hi all, at the moment i have a air/water chargecooler and i'm looking at changing to air/air. I'm thinking of putting it at the bottom of the D pillar, then sealing the D pillar from the engine bay. Then after the air has gone through the intercooler trunking it to the rear panel which is a low pressure area.
So, does anyone have any pictures of their setup? or links to topics with pictures?
Would like to hear what people have done and whether it worked well
thanks
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16" syncro multivan pop top AHU TDI
“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.”

[?Waldo?]

Why are you going from water/air to air/air. The water/air system, if set up well, will outperform the air/air with the downside being the cost of the components which you already have.

I've done several D-pillar installs using the Saab 900 intercooler. They work well. I believe that a common mistake that folks make with this type of install is to cut out the bottom of the D-pillar and isolate the intercooler from the engine compartment. This nullifies the flow down the d-pillar.

Here are a few pics. of how I've done it.

IMO one of the greatest challenges when going with an air to air intercooler is that it eliminates the use of the d-pillar for intake air. If aux oil cooler is placed on the right side of the engine and intercooler on the left there's no easy place to get clean cool intake air.

[lloydy]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I have seen a few of your set ups and they look good.
Reasons for looking at going air/air....
I am having a lot of bodywork done at the moment and the guy doing the work is happy to adapt the bottom of the D pillar to fit a intercooler in and trunk the 'spent' air to the rear panel in a way it will look 'factory'

Removing the chargecooler will free up a lot of space for me to fit the jx filter back in, instead of the K&N apollo i use at the moment.

less failure points with the pump, long pipe runs and radiator gone.

Basically i want less custom parts and more off the shelf parts, i do a lot of travelling in this syncro and want to be able to replace stuff easy.
As well as the bodywork i am also having a new tdi lump built (hydrolocked last one) so it seems a good time to sort this, and as you say, there is value in the parts i will be removing.
At the moment it's looking like it will be a cross between your setup and the way tristar eric does his
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16" syncro multivan pop top AHU TDI
“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.”

[OddN]

[MarkWard]

Evidentally, I have made the mistake to which Andrew mentions.

I can't comment on the pressure in the D pillar, but I see intake temps after the cooler about 30 degrees over ambient at highway speeds. My cooler is from the aftermarket. I appreciate the simplicity of an air to air cooler, but if I really wanted to manage the IAT, I would go with the water to air types of setups. I'd probably also add a water/menthanol injection type kit.
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[lloydy]

[SyncroGhia]

[MarkWard]

When I first joined the Samba, a member did some pretty expansive testing of the D pillar with pressure, scoops etc. Unfortunately, I did not book mark it. I recall there is not as much pressure as you would expect and there was not much you could do to improve it.

I never tested on a air cooled vanagon, but on my 68 bus, if the engine was running, it would hold a peice of paper against the vent even at idle. That is why it is so important to have a properly sealed engine compartment on an air cooled engine.

On the WBX, I am not so sure how neccessary the vents are. For sure when you shut the engine off, it is a good place for heat to rise out of the engine compartment. There is also an advanatage of insuring the intake air is as cool as possible in most climates.

Disclaimer: All of the above is just an opinion. Your results may vary.
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[lloydy]

[quote="SyncroGhia"]

[Christopher Schimke]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398314
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[Jake de Villiers]

[Christopher Schimke]

[OddN]

[johnnygreenham]

You can orientate the pipes and hoses into a few directions and give you the same effect. Here's mine

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1982 Diesel 1.9TD AAZ

[OddN]

[Howesight]

Here's my 2 cents: (actual value): The only way to make an air to air IC really effective in the D-pillar, it seems to me, is to have a switched fan, the switching based either on intake air temp or based on a threshold boost level. To really get some flow without a fan, you would need a large scoop at the top of the D-pillar and a dedicated duct after the IC to the very rear of the van (the low-pressure area) with an added diffuser, to get air flow through the IC comparable to the cooling power of the front water-to-air IC. In my opinion, all of that is too much work and space just to avoid fan noise.

No, I have no experience with this set up, but I am only taking into account Loogy's air pressure data and the known low-pressure area at the rear of the van. In short, to the OP, the water-to-air IC is a very smart system, compared to the many compromises the air-to-air IC requires on a Vanagon.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[lloydy]

thanks for all these replies, i am going down the route of air/air. It will lay flat at the bottom of the D pillar and be ducted to rear of the van. I'm having this corner rebuilt during a restoration, so it's not much extra work.
It will also have a thermostatically controlled fan, with the sensor for the stat fitted into a welded boss on the outlet of intercooler. this will put the stat in the actual air, so should be quick to react.
I am using a intercooler from a Audi A3, the plastic ends are being cut off and new ends tig'd on, making the inlet/outlet on the same side. The whole lot will be sealed off from the engine bay.
I'll post pictures as and when i get sent them
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16" syncro multivan pop top AHU TDI
“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.”

[davevickery]

This is the Saab intercooler. I guess people use these because they fit pretty well. There is one on each side with a pipe that runs around behind the license plate to connect them. These lay flat so only one side is getting any air, but I could prop it up I guess. The drivers side is more crowded because the cone filter is also jammed in there.

I checked my intake temps with the pillar open and blocked off with foam and I thought it was better blocked off. In stop and go, I wanted to isolate the heat from the turbo. At speed it didn't seem to make much difference. I didn't write down the comparison temperatures, but now I'm curious and will double check.

[dkoesyncro]

I am so glad this came up! I just spoke w/ Gearhard an Austrian engineer for Bell Inter coolers today. I was really considering an air/water cooler and had some Q's, after his teaching his advice was an air/air for this application because.......An air/water is used and really only warranted under extreme conditions such as racing where your under full boost and pushing rev limits and ambient/force air is not enough to cool properly or enough. He also stressed that fans are not enough that you need to have proper air flow through the I/C for it to work and the fan is much like the fan on a radiator its there for when ambient air is not enough to cool. He said unless I am using the van outside of normal uses an air/air is more than enough. I then explained I have a syncro and I use it like a jeep at times. His reply is if I am at full boost at 1-10 mph for extended amounts of time then I have built an engine that is for the wrong purpose, "Good point" i said!

The D pillar is the best place for an inter cooler according to Gearhard, he said the biggest challenge is making sure enough air can get to the I/C. He speculated that at high speeds the D pillar may in fact see a vacuum all tough its speculation.

Bottom line air/air and plenty of flow for the vanagon.

[Christopher Schimke]