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demon1018 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2009 Posts: 930 Location: crystal river, fl
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: steering box difference? |
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whats the difference between the 68-72 and 73 -up steering box? |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Availability, price, design, mounting, etc. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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demon1018 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2009 Posts: 930 Location: crystal river, fl
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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i realize the price and availability but what is different ? can they be swapped if modified? i seen new boxes for 73 - up thats why im asking |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I need one too. I have been looking into it and they can be used they (The later ones) are much better because they have a bearing instead of a peg! I think the mount must be modified. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Availability, price, design, mounting, etc. |
_________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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demon1018 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2009 Posts: 930 Location: crystal river, fl
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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does that mean you dont know? |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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demon1018 wrote: |
does that mean you dont know? |
Doesn't mean that at all. Can it be modified? No, you don't modify it but rather the buses frame. Is it worth it after all the work involved? You'll have to decide. The modification for the mounting has been discussed in detail a couple times. You'll have to do a Samba search to find the info. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. I know because I pulled my steering box and the pitman arms were different. I replaced my box with a TRW box and boy does it ever make a difference in turning. I used a synthetic gear box oil and it works like a Swiss Watch.
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51120 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. |
You may want to have a closer look at the bolt pattern on the frame where it attaches too _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. |
You may want to have a closer look at the bolt pattern on the frame where it attaches too |
Same all the way around, a perfect fit for the TRW. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51120 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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GeorgeO. wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. |
You may want to have a closer look at the bolt pattern on the frame where it attaches too |
Same all the way around, a perfect fit for the TRW. |
And you've actually installed one in a 68-72 bus? as well as a 73+? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. |
You may want to have a closer look at the bolt pattern on the frame where it attaches too |
Same all the way around, a perfect fit for the TRW. |
And you've actually installed one in a 68-72 bus? as well as a 73+? |
The one I pulled off had a yellow "1972" marked on the outside barely legible and I found out from my local shop that the 68-72 was a smaller spline. The bolt patterns are the same but that is where the similarity stops. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51120 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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GeorgeO. wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. |
You may want to have a closer look at the bolt pattern on the frame where it attaches too |
Same all the way around, a perfect fit for the TRW. |
And you've actually installed one in a 68-72 bus? as well as a 73+? |
The one I pulled off had a yellow "1972" marked on the outside barely legible and I found out from my local shop that the 68-72 was a smaller spline. The bolt patterns are the same but that is where the similarity stops. |
Perhaps it was from an 8/72 or newer bus? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable but the 73-79 has a larger pitman arm spline. |
You may want to have a closer look at the bolt pattern on the frame where it attaches too |
Same all the way around, a perfect fit for the TRW. |
And you've actually installed one in a 68-72 bus? as well as a 73+? |
The one I pulled off had a yellow "1972" marked on the outside barely legible and I found out from my local shop that the 68-72 was a smaller spline. The bolt patterns are the same but that is where the similarity stops. |
Perhaps it was from an 8/72 or newer bus? |
Perhaps! But what I do know is the output shaft was different and I had to find a pitman arm and nut to fit. |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Don't count on any of the rebuilt units lasting very long either. Some go as far as just cleaning them and painting them only. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:23 am Post subject: |
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GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable |
Short memory George? In the topic you started a few months ago the differences ended up being clarified. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6926573&highlight=steering+box#6926573
Early bay boxes are totally different than late bays as far as design and mounting and are not interchangable. And late Bay boxes come in 2 flavors. Early late Bay and late late Bay boxes. Only difference between those two late Bay boxes is the pitman arm size and that's where all you concern was. That's not related to what this thread is about. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
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the early box is rebuildable with replacement parts if you can find them. Right now the peg is what is needed most often. When it stops turning it flat spots. A good machinist could make them and test an old one for Rockwell then duplicate.
The late boxes were not designed to be rebuildable but they are. They are however either good or worn out when you inspect them. Seals and bearings are available. As long as they are a little tighter in center than outlying they will work 90% as well as when new. They were made by Gemmer then the design licensed to ZF. Gemmer built steering boxes for everything from trucks to Ferrari's from the 1930's on so they are well designed.
To my knowledge from what I have read there is no one who remanufactures them at a level I would be content with. My opinion of the definition of "rebuilt" may be different than yours. Too many horror stories here of rebuilt boxes that were new paint on the outside and old grease on the inside. I've rebuilt a few and they can be rebuilt if one takes the time to get new high quality bearings and seals. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:17 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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GeorgeO. Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2010 Posts: 881 Location: Menifee, CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Desertbusman wrote: |
GeorgeO. wrote: |
Actually both styles are interchangeable |
Short memory George? In the topic you started a few months ago the differences ended up being clarified. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6926573&highlight=steering+box#6926573
Early bay boxes are totally different than late bays as far as design and mounting and are not interchangable. And late Bay boxes come in 2 flavors. Early late Bay and late late Bay boxes. Only difference between those two late Bay boxes is the pitman arm size and that's where all you concern was. That's not related to what this thread is about. |
My understanding was that the output shafts were different because of the Vehicle weight, but I stand corrected....yeah my bad! |
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demon1018 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2009 Posts: 930 Location: crystal river, fl
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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well i did it . no big deal at all and it works awesome. no crappy "rebuilt" box here! i took some pics of how i did it if anybodys interested.
the box is a trw new box . trw is casted in it
first i made a cardboard template of the box and all the holes . i use poster board. i put it up on the frame and slide 2 bolts that lined up and marked the center hole so i could open it up
i used my die grinder to open the hole . its not a whole lot bigger than what is already there. did not take long at all. then i drilled out the spot welds that held in the tube inside the frame for the hole furthest toward the rear
then i pried the tube out.
next i took the template i made and marked where the rear hole needs to be and used my die grinder to slot out the og hole to the new one
both sides
i put the box up in there but the top rear hole was off just a tiny bit so i used my angle drill to clean the hole out
i put the tube back inside the frame after i sanded off the spotwelds on it and slid all th bolts in the box to line the tube up
pulled the rear bolt out so i could tack the tube in
welded up!
painted the frame up and bolted the box in. i replaced the rag joint as well. the pitman arm for this box has a bigger splined hole as well the nut is larger . i bought a used pitman arm from a 74-later bus . he gave me the nut and a thin flat washer that you bend around the pitman arm and the nut to keep it from backing off. both the rag joint and the drag link bolted right up. works great . not as good as the cavalier rack i put in my split bus but this was vary easy and youll have a new box you can count on
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