Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Can't get my 44 IDF's to full throttle
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
wicked1lbc
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2009
Posts: 347
Location: virginia
wicked1lbc is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Can't get my 44 IDF's to full throttle Reply with quote

Hi i got a 2007cc in a bug with dual 44 IDF's and when the petal is at full throttle the drivers side carb butterfly's are about 1/3-1/2 open and the passenger side about 3/4 open i've been adjusting the linkage but just cant quite get it. any tips or common misadjustments i should look for? thanks
_________________
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vintage-VDubz/158714140852567
64 Bug -- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=446680
2276cc Turbo
Freeway Flyer Tranny
Matte Black with Spikes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Classifieds Feedback
jfats808
Samba Member


Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
jfats808 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible you have one arm that is a bit longer than the other? If so switch em. Start on one side first. Connect up that linkage arm, tighten , then do the other side. Take your time and have patience.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125

Rockstar Suzuki wrote:

You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick

You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
slalombuggy
Samba Member


Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 8547
Location: 30 minutes from nowhere
slalombuggy is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is happening? is the cable arm hitting the fan shroud or are your carb linkage arms set in the wrong place? Is the cable in the wrong hole. Pictures would help a great deal. AND, your carbs have to open exactly the same amount. Usually you set he idle hook up one side and then adjust the other to work exactly the same. Then hook up your throttle cable

brad
_________________
Lucky Monkey Landspeed Racing
Proving that you can spends ridiculous sums of money to go slow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 19167
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove link between cross bar throttle shaft arms and carbs and push throttle pedal (in cab) to floor and set cable length so arm on throttle shaft (connected to cable) is close to but does not hit fan shroud..... Release pedal and (besure pedal and shaft return to closed throttle position) adjust length of connecting links so they go from arms on crossbar shaft to throttle arm on carbs making sure nothing moves while doing this (be sure carbs are completely closed), ball end on links should bolt to carb arm without bind or movement.... With this done press throttle pedal to floor... IF carbs do not open completely the geometry of the three arms on crossbar could be wrong..... THE concept there is when throttle pedal is bottomed out (in cab) the carbs are completely open, but not jammed open. Also arms on crossbar at carbs should be as close to ends of shaft (close to carb) as possible and link from arm to carb should be as vertical as possible..... IF cross bar and links are set up correctly and you get full throttle on one carb and not other the arms on carbs are not equal length from where they mount on carb shaft to where vertical link connects.... ON left hand carb (in most cases) there should be a one inch spacer between link and arm on carb....

Its all about the adjustment process, and seeing whats not happening and a process of adjustment in very small increments to where both carbs move the same amount for the same motion ...

Some times it takes a little time to see what is not happening, be patient and study situation....

This picture though was intended to show return spring shows interrelation ship of carb linkages....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also pick up a copy of "Weber Tech Manual" by Bob Tomlinson it has complete step by step process on how to setup Weber linkage...

Also if arm on left carb is not correct get either the REDLINE WEBER arm repair kit or get the CB Performance "Web Link" throttle arm for left hand carb....


http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=551

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...


Last edited by Dale M. on Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:31 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wicked1lbc
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2009
Posts: 347
Location: virginia
wicked1lbc is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks alot guys. i figured it out and wow did that open up my motor! Tomorrow is dyno day!!! yay!!
_________________
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vintage-VDubz/158714140852567
64 Bug -- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=446680
2276cc Turbo
Freeway Flyer Tranny
Matte Black with Spikes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Classifieds Feedback
mharney
Samba Member


Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 8346

mharney is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's useful (and even arguably customary) to explain what you did to fix it, to those that helped you, and others that might be able to use that help. This makes the search feature work for finding solutions to problems.

I want to point out that on that type of linkage, the bent arm usually needs adjustment. If you lay both arms flat on a surface, and measure the distance between the holes from spindle hole to linkage arm hole, the one with the bend in it is usually too short. When I say measure the distance, I mean the planar distance, referred to the surface. That means looking at the arm with the bend as if it as flat. Taking a little out of each bend on the arm will get it right. Measuring the planar length of the arm with the bend in it can be a little tricky, so do so carefully.

If these are not the same length, the carb with the shorter arm will lead the other one and open at a faster rate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wicked1lbc
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2009
Posts: 347
Location: virginia
wicked1lbc is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good idea harney.

well it was fairly a simple fix. the arm that the throttle cable is connected to was set to the wrong position. I disconnected the throttle arms from the carbs and dropped the linkage until it could not go anymore. then noticed the arm holding the cable was too far away from the shroud. Loosened the allen bolt and shifted one notch bringing the tip of the arm about 1/4' away from the shroud. tightened then reassembled/adjusted. pretty much it. i love simple fixes. thanks again every1
_________________
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vintage-VDubz/158714140852567
64 Bug -- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=446680
2276cc Turbo
Freeway Flyer Tranny
Matte Black with Spikes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Classifieds Feedback
hsosa1
Samba Member


Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1848
Location: Fontana
hsosa1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
Remove link between cross bar throttle shaft arms and carbs and push throttle pedal (in cab) to floor and set cable length so arm on throttle shaft (connected to cable) is close to but does not hit fan shroud..... Release pedal and (besure pedal and shaft return to closed throttle position) adjust length of connecting links so they go from arms on crossbar shaft to throttle arm on carbs making sure nothing moves while doing this (be sure carbs are completely closed), ball end on links should bolt to carb arm without bind or movement.... With this done press throttle pedal to floor... IF carbs do not open completely the geometry of the three arms on crossbar could be wrong..... THE concept there is when throttle pedal is bottomed out (in cab) the carbs are completely open, but not jammed open. Also arms on crossbar at carbs should be as close to ends of shaft (close to carb) as possible and link from arm to carb should be as vertical as possible..... IF cross bar and links are set up correctly and you get full throttle on one carb and not other the arms on carbs are not equal length from where they mount on carb shaft to where vertical link connects.... ON left hand carb (in most cases) there should be a one inch spacer between link and arm on carb....

Its all about the adjustment process, and seeing whats not happening and a process of adjustment in very small increments to where both carbs move the same amount for the same motion ...

Some times it takes a little time to see what is not happening, be patient and study situation....

This picture though was intended to show return spring shows interrelation ship of carb linkages....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also pick up a copy of "Weber Tech Manual" by Bob Tomlinson it has complete step by step process on how to setup Weber linkage...

Also if arm on left carb is not correct get either the REDLINE WEBER arm repair kit or get the CB Performance "Web Link" throttle arm for left hand carb....


http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=551

Dale
Hey Dale im going from redline linkage to the cb performance offset linkage. I no longer have the redline stops i took them off. now that im using this cb linkage. I dont see any stops included in the cb kit. Do I need to buy this left kit from cb to make my linkage work? also as i do recall the redline kit the spring was on the right idf. anyhow i quess my question is on the cb linkage kit does it come complete or do i need to buy the carb stops like the redline kit had..
_________________
Just Cruzin Sur Califas VW Car Club est♤1998
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Twitter Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 19167
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do not have appropriate "left side arm" yes buy CB arm kit (Web Link) or Weber kit 99004 913...

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Weber-IDF-Linkage-Hardware-Repair-Kit-99004-913-p/99004.913.htm

Only stops you need should be already on throttle butterfly shaft..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/444.317-99.htm

So have somebody in car holding pedal to floor, open throttles all the way and "set" cable and carbs at WOT... Trial should show carb arms against the shaft stops (gently) when pedal of all the way down... It is that simple....

On springs.... I do not rely on springs of carbs, though each carb should have return spring around shaft....What I do is use a very soft spring from hardware store that guarantees carbs close....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is what I do, use this on both my street car and race car (years that I owned it) and never had a problem, always positive throttle return.... BUT do not use real strong spring that slam things closed, as I said soft spring that are just capable of positive return (cut to length for appropriate tension)

IF air cleaners or carb arms do not have spring mount point, add something... Its not rocket science....

I made these to go under heim joint bolts on carb arms...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hsosa1
Samba Member


Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1848
Location: Fontana
hsosa1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a pic of the left idf I do have the small stop. I saw your set up. pic of the right idf
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
idf . The spring is on the side no stop. I see that u have the spring on the same side . Thanks for the help
_________________
Just Cruzin Sur Califas VW Car Club est♤1998
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Twitter Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 19167
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proper setup of IDF puts left side carb with spring on rear (towards passenger compartment) and stop on front of carb with linkage arm.... Right side carb put the stop on rear of carb (towards passenger compartment) and spring on front of carb with linkage arm....

The issue here is long time ago Weber made both left and right side carbs with proper arms for "each side" some time later they discontinued left side carb leaving people to flounder on putting arm on left had side ..... Enter CB Web Link and Weber "repair kit"...

Both carbs should have springs and stops set up identical as if they were both right hand side carbs... Only difference is that you need to add missing (or wrong) throttle arm of left hand side carb...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ironically EMPI/HPMX actually gets springs and stops and arms correct for application ... Carbs are universal (no left/right) side and either carb can be on either side because they made linkage arms universal (correct) for/on both ends of carb shaft....

If carbs have been molested, it's all about bring carbs together in proper orientation (on bench) for application and getting proper springs and stops and linkage arm in proper places so both carbs operate with same movement and stops but just remember they will have opposite shaft rotation....

Its all just like a puzzle to get parts to fit in correct places, only caution is do not tighten shaft nuts to tight and use the lock clips on nuts... IF you tighten shaft nuts to tight there is danger of pulling shaft toward nut to much and wedging butterfly into carb body making it to stiff to operate....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hsosa1
Samba Member


Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1848
Location: Fontana
hsosa1 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see so I dont need the weblink as the spring is on the correct side. but I do need to order the brass stops though . putting my order in for the stops today
_________________
Just Cruzin Sur Califas VW Car Club est♤1998
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Twitter Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 19167
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hsosa1 wrote:
I see so I dont need the weblink as the spring is on the correct side. but I do need to order the brass stops though . putting my order in for the stops today


Only they are not brass, the are yellow cadmium plated steel...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB