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jslew Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Trinidad, CO
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject: My Vanagon Saga |
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I'm needing some kind of therapy - I'm hoping this will help. My van is slowly turning me into the Jack Nicholson character from the Shining...
A year and a half ago, I flew from Denver to Boise & bought an '89 Vanagon GL. Rust free, a few dings, awesome interior, canadian rebuilt engine w/ unknown miles... overall a good base vehicle to make into a cross country driver. I made it home w/o AC in 100* heat in July w/ no problems.
Started doing maintenance, and at some point it developed an idle issue. Being an aircooled guy I've always been hesitant to get a car w/ FI, but i figured it was time to learn. Went thru the whole system testing & replacing parts. Took my time & started w/ the cheap stuff... 3 months later found the AFM was bad.
Drove around testing to make sure it was good before emissions... almost immediately started getting oil pressure alarm. I used 10W40 instead of 15w40 when i changed it. That got me curious how bad was my oil pressure if a small change did that? So, i added an oil pressure gauge. Now i could see how crappy the OP was. Played w/ oil pump shims, pressure relief valve shim, put in 20w50... got it to where there were no alarms, but OP at idle was barely 9psi and 3K RPM was maybe 22psi. Tried moving crankshaft but it seemed solid so I did a poor man rebuild. Changed rods too for no stretch bolts. Took measurements on everything (pistons, cyl, rings, rod bearings, etc...) - nothing was out of spec though things were on the loose side. Had a valve/head job done & realized there were no ridges/grooves under the valve keepers!!! I could have dropped a valve at any time! Changed all of the coolant hoses, put in a new radiator, put it back together and still crappy oil pressure!! OK, mains are shot! The van sat for a year!
Rebuilt the engine! Blueprinted everything. Used micrometers & bore guages & i can tell you any measurement. Balanced rods & had crank/flywheel/clutch done by denver balancing. Rebuild took 4 months. Changed all 28' of heater hose & front heater valve (old one was leaking). Put in new rear heater core w/ RJE adapter & Home Depot brass fittings.
Started break-in & testing of engine... everything went pretty good. Put about 60 miles on it and went for emissions. Noticed it was running a little warmer than normal, but highs were in the 30s and the needle never stopped touching the light. Passed emissions, but my gas cap failed - bastards!
Got a cap & went back for emissions. No cars in line - awesome. They pulled me onto the dyno... then off of the dyno. Tell me there's a coolant leak & say they cant test it. I pull around the corner & tighten up the leaky clamp on the plastic hose to the radiator. Bought some extra coolant across the street & I'm back for another test. Van on dyno - girl is giving it hell. I'm telling a guy that I'm worried about blowing a coolant hose when BLAM... white smoke everywhere!!! She shuts it down & they push it out to the curb. Metal end has pulled out of plastic hose & taken hose with it. I clamp the hose back on as best i can, put in what coolant i have left & drive across the street to get more. Crisis diverted, I feel ok & head for home. 3/4 of the way home temp needle starts climbing to the top. I shut it down & coast as much as i can. Two miles from home - PA-POW! The coolant level sensor has blown out of the expansion tank. I coast into a safe spot & call my wife for a tow. Further testing reveals the fan switch sensor was bad, as well as the brand new thermostat - which i didn't test - cuz it's new right? At this point I broke down & installed a stainless coolant pipe kit.
Finally passed emission!! Now i"m out trying to get some miles on it for break-in. Routine becomes: take it out for drive, then fix leaks... this went on for 3 weeks. First leak was brand new german front heater valve. I was pumped to do that twice! Second leak was in my brass fittings for rear heater core - fixed. Next is leak from both Heater hose Ts into main line - I had reused nice factory clamps, but upon removal a couple of them broke, so obviously they were not applying the correct amount of pressure. Next leak was from loose outlet on rear of passenger head - easy fix. Seems like i'm forgetting a bunch!
Made it to 300 miles & decided to do compression test to establish baseline. Got good numbers: 1)120 2)130 3) 130 4)125. With altitude correction that translates to like 143%-156%. But whats up with #1? Did leak down test & obvious hissing from intake valve. 16% leak on #1, #2 was 5%, #3 was 12% & #4 was 10%. Backed out adjusters, removed springs - still 16% leak. Tried spinning valves in seat - #1 exhaust moved smooth. #1 intake was very rough - so I pulled the head. There was a ridge on top of the used valve that the shop put in my #1 intake valve which wasn't allowing the valve to close all the way. An experienced, good machinist caught it in 2 secs. My new guy said that was one of the worst "valve jobs" he had ever seen. What sucks is it's a reputable VW shop. I took pics and plan on giving them hell next time i'm in.
Finally, another valve job and 2 gasket kits later, everything is back together. I'm pouring the oil (w 300 miles on it) thru a filter before i reuse it, and what do I see in the oil? Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!!!!! COOLANT!
What sucks is on my second trip into the head i didn't change the black ring at the base of the cylinder. The old one has 300 miles on it, and i used reinzosil on it (sparingly). Had i known there was coolant in the oil i would have inspected them better and/or pulled them. I pretty much put my tail between my legs and admitted defeat!! I'm ready to put this thing in the barn for a few months! I filtered the oil and will do some driving tomorrow - then drain & see if there's any new coolant. Maybe it's a fluke... maybe when removing the head some coolant went down the cylinder? I know realistically I'm about to disassemble everything for the 3rd time, but I'll start w/ the easy stuff. Gonna look at the oil cooler... I wonder if the overheating episode may have caused some of my leaks - maybe it fried the oil cooler too? Beyond that I guess I'll try lightly pressurizing each coolant chamber & see if i hear any leaks into the main part of the case. So, the saga continues... Hope some of you got a kick out of my babbling. Always good to hear from someone who has it worse than you! I feel a little better. And now for some Crown. _________________ Current Garage:
'67 Cal Look Bug
'70 Westy
'73 Baja
'74 Spec Ed Love Bug - my first car bought in '86!
'89 Vanagon GL
'92 Corrado SLC |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10248 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! All I can say for the moment is that the Vanagon community needs more people like you!! _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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kbeefy Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2006 Posts: 600 Location: Central Oregon
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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mmm.... Crown.... (there are no drunk, or drink emoticons. Someone fix this!)
you sound like you know your way around an engine bay. Should've swapped in a different motor to start with, then you could justify all the hassle! _________________ 86 syncro CHC, NorthWesty subbie 2.5, decoupler, locker, custom interior, 225/75r16 Duratrack's on CLK's, Toyo cabin heater, ARB fridge, 300w Zamp Solar, Gowesty bumpers/skid/rails, Fiama awning
'86 Syncro Westy. Stock for now.
2000 F350 7.3 CC LB 11' Northland Cabover
2006 Subbie OBXT
2002 Tacoma DoubleCab 4x4
1969 Mustang Basket Case 351c/FMX/9
http://kbeefy.blogspot.com/ |
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Therapy
Ok, sure, here goes:
Congratulations on displaying some pretty incredible sticktoitiveness!
You rock.
Neil2 |
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frau clink Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2014 Posts: 5 Location: Jacobs
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:32 am Post subject: "YOUR SAGA" |
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If I were u, with all your problems, I couldn't sleep until I changed the Fuel Hoses!!! Of coarse you appear to have covered that. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32574 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:35 am Post subject: |
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These old Vans are a "Where do you Stop" conumdrum!
They need just a little bit more than you gave!
These are a "Modern" Antique. An early venture by the Automotive World into plastics, too much electronics, light weight fuel / cost saving components and failure prone items. These aren't at all simple and Solid like older Beetles / Buses were!
I've been doing engine / mechanical work for nigh unto a half century
One thing that I was taught is that you never EVER reuse seals and gaskets.
If you tightened it once and need to remove it for some reason...... Install a new one!
Maybe I'm all wet and you really don't need to replace these as I do.....but it's worked successfully for me for a longer time period than the majority of our Nation's population (and probably most reading this post) have been alive!
Keep at it, you've come this far! There's no backing down now!
Although.........
Your post is making me rethink about my decision to NOT install new Stainless Coolant Pipes!
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Zebu Fellenz Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2013 Posts: 194 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the club! I've been sorely tempted a time ...or twenty to wash my van in gas and dry it with a match.
Keep your head up, it gets better or so I've been told. |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Zebu Fellenz wrote: |
Welcome to the club! I've been sorely tempted a time ...or twenty to wash my van in gas and dry it with a match.
Keep your head up, it gets better or so I've been told. |
That there was kinda funny. |
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JudoJeff Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 1179 Location: Near Springfield, MA
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Unless you're into suffering, put in a Bostig conversion. _________________ ________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout) |
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vanaru Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2005 Posts: 169 Location: Sykesville, Maryland
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: Wow |
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Bright side. Your not welding up rust holes. _________________ 1962 sunroof beetle
1982 porsche 911 SC
1991 vanagon WRX powered |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32574 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:49 am Post subject: |
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JudoJeff wrote: |
Unless you're into suffering, put in a Bostig conversion. |
Funny how people push engine conversions whenever a problem arises and not only do they push just "conversions" in general but each one's particular flavor of conversion is pushed!
What "conversion pushers" fail to realize is that many of us with air cooled or WBX's ENJOY having the stock setup.
We all know that we can convert, but please listen........
WE DO NOT WANT TO!
Yes, we are strange creatures, maybe a little stubborn as well..........
I'm happy you converted, it went well and that you are happy. But your happy pill is not for everyone to swallow.
It is actually tiresome to read the simplistic stock phrases..... "Put in a Subie", "put in a TDI", "put in a BOSTIG" ...... these answers don't help the OP.
When you conversion folk end up with a running problem, a leak, or similar...... Rest assured, I will NEVER tell you to put in a WBX'er.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:00 am Post subject: |
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No conversion needed with the availability of a Vanistan rebuild.
Worth every penny and the wait.
Long live the Waterboxer.
Sure you can DIY, but be prepared for DIY issues. |
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jslew Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Trinidad, CO
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Well, thanks for the positive comments. I'm headed out to work on the puzzle some more.
insyncro wrote: |
No conversion needed with the availability of a Vanistan rebuild. Worth every penny and the wait.
Long live the Waterboxer.
Sure you can DIY, but be prepared for DIY issues. |
This sounds mean, but i'm just asking... even w/ a vanistan engine, is tencentlife going to come repair your van when you're in Maine on vacation and the faulty reinzosil gasket around the base of the cylinder starts leaking? New quality parts fail - no matter who builds the engine. I know i can fix my own!
One day I may do a 6 cyl conversion on a westy, but i have no problem w/ wbx engines. IMO the only reason wbx engines have a bad reputation is because of non-mechanical owners. You cant drive a 30 year old car w/o replacing EVERYTHING!! You can do it all at once, or break down once a month for the next 2 years. If i was the mechanic for some guy who kept bringing his van back every week I would prob grow to hate them too!
Fuel lines were the first thing i replaced - and one was almost cracked thru, so that was good! _________________ Current Garage:
'67 Cal Look Bug
'70 Westy
'73 Baja
'74 Spec Ed Love Bug - my first car bought in '86!
'89 Vanagon GL
'92 Corrado SLC |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I personally have not heard of any gasket failures on one of Chris's rebuilds, nor do I plan too.
He is a master craftsman.
Just my opinion. |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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If truly interested in an H6...EZ30d is your answer, the others are either too old or too new.
Just my opinion....based on a shop full of H6s |
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shadetreetim Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1994 Location: Riverside, California
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: |
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And after yet another engine conversion comment...
jslew, I too have chased problem after problem on my waterboxer Vanagon. Sometimes it does seem as if its never ending. Coolant issues? EFI issues? Yep and Yep. Been there. I'm happy to say that after 2 years of tinkering the problems have been in remission for a few months now.
On the bright side I now know much more about fuel injection than I ever planned on learning.
_________________ Tim Potts
Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!
'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'74 Jeep CJ5 |
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seventyfo Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2007 Posts: 916 Location: Ocoee FL
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
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FLO- just gotta say, die antwoord rocks _________________ 85 Vanagon GL Westy GW 2.2 (Rebuilt by YT)
"I don't know you well enough to care about your comments". Watkins Cravey |
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jslew Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Trinidad, CO
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm so comfortable w/ FI now that I went and bought a scirocco and a corrado! Knocking some of the cars I've always wanted off my list! And the cool thing about them is the longest coolant pipe is like 3'!!! _________________ Current Garage:
'67 Cal Look Bug
'70 Westy
'73 Baja
'74 Spec Ed Love Bug - my first car bought in '86!
'89 Vanagon GL
'92 Corrado SLC |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10075 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
even w/ a vanistan engine, is tencentlife going to come repair your van when you're in Maine on vacation and the faulty reinzosil gasket around the base of the cylinder starts leaking? |
No, tencentlife won't need to because tencentlife requires his customer to install a new bench-tested coolant tank pressure cap as a basic condition of warranty. Did you? _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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jslew Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Trinidad, CO
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:19 am Post subject: |
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tencentlife wrote: |
Quote: |
even w/ a vanistan engine, is tencentlife going to come repair your van when you're in Maine on vacation and the faulty reinzosil gasket around the base of the cylinder starts leaking? |
No, tencentlife won't need to because tencentlife requires his customer to install a new bench-tested coolant tank pressure cap as a basic condition of warranty. Did you? |
Yes, forgot to mention that! New one that actually sealed. At this point, the only things i haven't replaced in the whole coolant system are the thermostat housing, expansion tank, add-coolant tank, and the coolant distribution tower.
And might i add thank you for doing what you do!! I studied your build sheet long before i ever started this process. Between comments from you and Rocky, I think i've got a pretty sweet engine. Main bearing clearances between .022-.028", con rods all around .018. After 2nd valve job, leak down numbers cold are all 5-7%. I used the 2.2 GW kit w/ their 108* cam. This thing runs strong! I can run 75-80 on the hwy w/ no problem, and the torque is noticable going up hills. Oil pressure w/ 10w30 is 18psi at idle and 50psi above 2500RPM. Anyway, I'm in no way comparing what i did to one of your builds, but thanks for all of the info you supply. Your post about valve spring rates was the only place on the internet i could find that info!
Quick update... no coolant in the oil filter. Went on test drive & will drain oil after lunch. _________________ Current Garage:
'67 Cal Look Bug
'70 Westy
'73 Baja
'74 Spec Ed Love Bug - my first car bought in '86!
'89 Vanagon GL
'92 Corrado SLC |
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