Vanagon Headlight Relay Questions

[ctulip98]

Hello all, first post here and a new proud owner of a '87 Vanagon GL. I recently went to install a headlight relay and ran into a few issues. As the relay instructions indicate I tried to find the headlight ground on the grounding nut by removing each one until the headlights turn off. None of the grounds (I pulled them all) killed the headlights.

Secondly the previous owner has installed a XenTec HID conversion kit for the low beams. They do work well but they are not a dual filament light (if that makes correct) so when you use the high beams the lows are off. The previous owner mention something about rewiring in some way so both sets of lights are on when the high beams are selected. Am I correct in thinking that w/o the HID setup the low beams are a dual filament bulb and stay on when the Highs are on at a lower wattage?

Sooo a few questions....

1. Would rewiring so both sets of light are on when the Highs are selected be advisable? (with a relay installed) If so how?

2. Why wouldn't pulling the ground kill the lights? Could they be grounded by the HID kit somehow??

I would rather not have the HID kit involved, but since it's already installed I might as well roll with it. I just hope to upgrade the high beams as well for more power (not HID though).

Hope this makes some sense to someone, I'm far from electrically inclined. Thanks a lot for any input!

[Vanagon Nut]

Maybe the OEM ground wires were physically moved to a different spot? When upgrading or improving the headlights, some will shorten the OEM ground wires and/or replace with new wires.

I don't recall right now. Do the later MY Vanagons have two ground stars at area above/near the fuse panel? If so, did you check both?

As to wiring in new circuits, you need to calculate what the load (Amps) will be and use appropriately sized wires. Be sure to fuse any new circuit.

Neil.
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[Ahwahnee]

[K58]

You need the proper wiring harness to run the HID's so they don't disable the low beam when the highs are on. I recommend removing the kit and replacing with the stock 9006 bulbs. It's impossible to get anything but tons of glare from those headlights with hid bulbs installed. Even the Hella E-code's aren't very good with HID.
Or, you could check my sig for a proper HID setup
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Westy HID Projector Retrofit

[thatvwbusguy]

Pull the HID conversion kit out for sure. An HID capsule inside a reflector headlight housing is illegal and unsafe regardless of the brand of the lens being used. There is no possible way to make the HID's function properly inside the Vanagon lens without doing a complete projector retrofit like the one shown in K58's link. Every other driver on the road will thank you for doing the right thing once you get halogen bulbs back in your lenses.

In stock format, the inner and outer lenses are both used for high beam. The outer main lens uses a 9004 (not 9006) dual filament bulb and the inner lens uses an H3 single filament bulb.

You can get 80/100W Hella 9004 bulbs on amazon.com for less than $8.00ea: http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-HLA-H83155131-HB1-9004...ella+9004. These will give you plenty of light and you won't have people flashing you all the time due to the incredibly annoying HID glare.

I would recommend replacing the inner bulbs with new 55W H3's at the same time: http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-HLA-H83135041-Halogen-...=hella+h3. You could run 100W bulbs in the high beams as well, but lifespan will be reduced and the extra wattage isn't really needed if you have your lights properly aimed.

If you can post a few photos of how the wiring is set up, I should be able to help you get everything back to stock configuration (assuming the previous owner didn't completely hack the wiring harness apart). I would guess that the HID ballasts are grounded to the body of the van. This would explain why removing the stock headlight grounds did nothing.

If you want to take a drive down to Newmarket, I can help you get everything back to stock and working properly in person. I have replacement headlight sockets and anything else you would need to get the job done properly. I also have all the parts necessary to swap in 7" round H4 headlights if you would like to try that out. Anything you decide to do will be better than the badly chosen HID setup you have now.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[delta9007]

thatvwbusguy tells it like it is.
Definitely get that crap setup out of there before I run you off the road
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'89 2wd, 4spd, 2.1 Westfalia.

[ctulip98]

Hey Thanks for all the responses! Removing the HID kit is what I was thinking too. I seems like its a 'quick' install kit that should hopefully come out pretty easy. I think they must be grounded thru the HID kit as well.

VWguy- I believe I bought the relay kit from you (thanks!) and may take you up on your offer if I can figure this out.

The PO work is pretty sloppy in all aspects, but atleast he was educated in wiring otherwise I'd be much more worried. Again thanks for the help and I sure I'll have more questions!

[Bman]

BUMP>>>

I just installed the VC headlight relay kit on my wife's 89 Bluestar this past weekend, great instructions, but for the fact of what to do with the fuses?

I installed the relay's, replaced a poor lens, and fitted with newer high output bulbs (80w/100w).

The kits all seem to come with two 15 amp fuses. Now in which fuse holders should this be in? The 9 and 10 ( If my memory is correct) is for the low beams, the 21 and 22 spaces are for the HI beams. So in which of these headlight fuse holders should I have placed the supplied 15 A fuses?

Thanks.
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~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[Jeff's Old Volks Home]

[Bman]

Jeff,

Yes it does, thanks. I was replacing all of those fuses with 15 or 20 amp fuses, depending on what I had. Not sure why the kit would only come with 2 amp fuses and not 4?

The VC high output bulbs came with just two 15 amp fuses, not sure what their reasoning was there, since you would be replacing the output of all bulbs.
_________________
~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[thatvwbusguy]

Each low beam filament has its own fuse. Likewise each high beam filament has its own fuse.

Since most people will be running 9004 80/100W bulbs maximum in an 86-91 Vanagon with stock headlight housings, we can figure out the correct fuse to use by dividing watts by volts.

On low beam 80W / 12V = 6.66A. This shows that there is no need to increase the amperage for the low beam fuses above stock even with higher wattage bulbs. Since most vans produce slightly more than 12.0V at the headlight socket after installing headlight relays, the amperage will actually be a bit lower.

For 100W high beams in the main lens and 55W standard H3 bulbs in the inner lens, we will be working with 155W/12V = 12.92A, so 15A fuses are more than enough for the high beam positions.

I don't usually recommend running 100W H3 bulbs in the small inner high beam lens for a few reasons:

1) The extra heat of high wattage bulbs in a small enclosure drastically reduces lifespan.

2) The stock headlight wiring is about 16AWG, which gets pretty hot with all that current running through it.

3) I have never seen a situation where that much light is really needed with a properly aimed headlight system. Clean lenses and careful aiming go a long way when it comes to good headlight performance.

If someone does want to run 100W bulbs in the inner lens, we are working with 200W / 12V = 16.6A, so a 20A fuse will be needed.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[Bman]

^^^Thank you for your posts and informative explanations, this was exactly what I wanted to learn. I will now return the 21 and 22 to stock fuses and make sure I have at least 20A in the 9 and 10 position. The kit I got from VC does include the 100w high beam bulbs that I installed. I will consider whether we really need these in the smaller housing, once the weather improves of course.
_________________
~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[thatvwbusguy]

With any high wattage bulb, the lifespan will be shorter than a standard bulb. In a smaller housing, the effect will be even more noticeable. I highly recommend keeping at least one spare bulb of each type stashed away somewhere in the van.

If you purchase a full set of extra bulbs from amazon, you will just make it over the magic $25.00 threshold to receive free shipping.

Hella 9004 80/100W - http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-HLA-H83155131-HB1-9004...hella+9004

Hella H3 55W - http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-H83135051-Replacement-...s=hella+h3
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[davideric9]

I installed these relay kiits. Just received the bulbs 80/100 9004s. I was thinking about harvesting a few spares from the junk yard. I came accross 9004 HB1s. No indication of wattage. What does the HB1 (Sylvania) designation tell us?
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1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012)

[thatvwbusguy]

HB1 and 9004 are different designations for the same bulb. HB stands for "halogen bulb". Being designated as an HB1/9004 means that it is a halogen bulb with both high and low beam and a transverse (side to side across the bulb) filament design.

Unless otherwise noted, an HB1/9004 has a 45W low beam and a 65W high beam. The 45W low beam just barely meets the minimum requirements for required output and is a main reason why the stock 86-91 Vanagon headlight performance is so abysmal.

I am pretty sure that Ford was the original catalyst for the development of the 9004 bulb, with a concentration was on low cost and long lifespan. Lower wattage definitely helps to extend the lifespan of the bulb, but with only 700 lumens on low beam, the lack of performance is likely to shorten the lifespan of the driver
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[kombivan]

Had my van 28 years now and never needed to know where the head light relay is until now if you could help I thank you, also is there a fuse between dipper and the relay thank you.
1989 T3 or vanagon in the US. picture also may help as all the images I found don't have it. Seem to have no power at high beam dipper headlight switch is ok. Its a replacement dipper and indicator switch I fitted.

I have shorted high beam
I have low beam and parkers but when switched off if I leave lights on the both head lights stay on instead of one.
Headlight switch and dipper switch are good

any ideas.

[kamzcab86]

[kombivan]

I have determined my wiring is ok as I fitted an old switch head and it works fine but doesn't cancel so now I have to determine if the switch mount is damaged by playing sparkie or if the new indicator stalks don't work without a relay or additional power somewhere.

[kombivan]

Put another stalk on with my original wiper stalk and now it works fine so glad I sleeped on it over night and did some reading of the bentley so I could check the wires, a friend in my facebook group gave me all the correct info but not being an auto elect I had to nut out what he said nut out what the book said and nut out what I thought as you have to be careful with wiring. don't expect a indicator stalk to be faulty as they are simple.

[zerotofifty]

I put in the higher watt bulbs, as sold by a Vanagon retailer and added relays and moved the ground point to the body within several inches of the lamps.

The problem is the stock fuse panel cant handle the load, the fuses are stock, they dont blow, but the fuse panel itself, its wires get too hot. What is needed for best results is to bypass the stock fuse panel.
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