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Bostig oil drain/change
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buildyourown
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Bostig oil drain/change Reply with quote

Went to do my first oil change on my Bostig last weekend.
I have the HC pan that says it should hold 5.5qt.
Checked the oil after adding 5 qts and it was WAY high.
Let it all settle for a couple days and then started draining it slowly. I took approx 2 full qts out and its still over full.

Obviously when I initially drained it, only 3 qts came out. Is there a trick to getting a complete drain? I'm parked on a tiny incline, but it is very slight.
Nothing is lost at the point except a couple qts of Mobile 1, but its frustrating when a simple 15min task becomes an ordeal.
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boulderdrop
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, I have to park in a way that allows for the pan to drain towards the drain-plug, with even a slight tilt towards the side. It's kind of a pain in the ass, but I didn't have to work too hard at it.

I wonder if there's a lot of RTV squeezed out on the inside? Maybe this would interfere with the flow.

There's a special instruction for the HCOP + Skidplate, but I didn't see any other guides:

https://bostig.zendesk.com/entries/25064432-Draining-oil-with-HCOP-skid-plate
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Captjon1959
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would contact Bostig right away and get a fast and official answer.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boulderdrop wrote:
For me, I have to park in a way that allows for the pan to drain towards the drain-plug, with even a slight tilt towards the side. It's kind of a pain in the ass, but I didn't have to work too hard at it.

I wonder if there's a lot of RTV squeezed out on the inside? Maybe this would interfere with the flow.

There's a special instruction for the HCOP + Skidplate, but I didn't see any other guides:

https://bostig.zendesk.com/entries/25064432-Draining-oil-with-HCOP-skid-plate


every time i change my oil i get pissed off that that plug faces the front and not the side. makes no god damn sense. cardboard or no, changing the oil with the skid plate installed is a messy pita that would be totally eliminated if the plug faced the passenger side.

anyway, as for the OP, yeah seems like you're not getting it all out if you've got 2qt over. i can usually get 5qts in for an oil change
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chojinchef
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I had my first test run, I had filled the specified quantity of oil and took for a spin around the block. Pulling into the yard with the van smoking like Cheech and Chong movie did not please my wife. (Momma talka to me, try to tell me how to live)

When I called Bostig, I was told that there would be a 1/2 quart residual in the HC pan if the drain was done on level pavement and to back off that amount when refilling.

I drain up on ramp now to get the most out possible.
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furrylittleotter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is impossible. Bostig is like the Apple computer of conversions, they are exempt from any possible error…at least that's the general consensus. Of course they are on version TEN, which is supposed to become the new standard, but what were the first nine then? Practice? Rolling Eyes

I would be PISSED if the damn oil drain was in any way difficult to access or, when used, DID NOT ALLOW THE OIL TO DRAIN??? I am sitting here not believing a professional actually told you the thing was designed to not drain a pint, just leave that out when you refill it. Brick wall
oh, and just change three of your spark plugs and one windshield wiper.

I am pleased my stock Subaru pan drains just fine and is still higher that a bostig. Cool

Hope you guys find a way to get a pan that actually drains the oil.

I don;t even want to think about what a lube shop would do to your van if, God forbid, you went there to GASP,,,get an oil change.

I'm sure I could come up with a better idea in about 10 seconds.

(Bostig, "The most trusted engine conversion")

Clever slogan.
Neil2

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thatvwbusguy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez Neil2, why the fascination with comparing Bostig to Apple and calling them an evil corporation and such? Could that be eau de troll I smell?

Bostig has recently released the "Retail" version of their product after long term testing and thoughtful revisions partially based on feedback they received during beta group installations. I know this because I converted my '85 Westy to Zetec power back in 2007 as one of the first DIY installers. Even back then, this was an incredibly well conceived and executed conversion.

The pics you posted show the stock Zetec oil pan and an older style engine cradle, not the kit you get from Bostig today.

I don't see any other conversion offering a high capacity, high clearance steel oil pan or a full coverage bolt on skid plate that will take the weight of the van without any more damage than a deep scratch...

Try this with your van before you feel the need to bash another conversion that you are clearly not familiar with. Be forewarned however that your aluminum oil pan will not fare very well under these conditions.


Link


The oil drainage issue only exists for people running the full coverage skid plate. This inconvenience honestly seems like a small price to pay for the level of protection gained if you ask me.
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chojinchef
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I see it: Too many other things to be concerned about than a pint of oil. Especially since I use Dino oil in this engine and I change it as frequently as I do.

If I recall correctly, Nate stated it was due to the reinforcement baffles added in the base of the pan to make it as strong as it is.

Truth be told, I think there is more than a pint left in my MB v8 in the galleys and crevices than the well draining vertical Zetec anyway.

I have plenty of clearance on my HC pan, and as I remember last year at Dobryans house we compared that to a subaru conversion and there was little difference after I subtracted some from mine due to the tall tires I am running.

No conversion is without its flaws. Wiring on some, inferior parts and head gaskets on others. No factory production vehicle is flawless either if you are going to take a microscope to every facet of its build. All preference, that's all and since the Bostig boys are an hour from my house, it's a no brainer for me.
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bostig
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the draining of the HC Oilpan, without the skidplate you'll get just about eveything out other than the height of the threads and gasket radius needed to seal when level. If you put the driver's wheel up on a ramp or jack it you can get more, but it shouldn't be enough to be worth it.

If you have the skidplate installed all the time, then you need to lift the driver's side and use a bit of cardboard or plastic with a crease to drain it. This is so that no low point (as seen in OEM stock pans) is needed, which increases cost, adds a lower hit point, and would require the entire skidplate to be that much lower.

If you are still suspicious you aren't getting enough, call, email, or submit a ticket and we can figure out if anything else/weird is going on.

furrylittleotter wrote:

I am pleased my stock Subaru pan drains just fine and is still higher that a bostig. Cool


Neil2, if you're game: with your van on even pavement, can you measure your ground clearance at the lowest point, along with the distance from the ground to your wheel arch (body panel, middle of the bottom edge of the arch) height?

If you have subie stock pan, you should be a couple inches worse off than a Bostig with the HC Oilpan. Early versions used to have worse ground clearance but we are now equal or better to recent subaru based installs we have data for. For instance Syncro Bo https://www.facebook.com/SyncroBo gained .5" when it was converted from a 2.2L subaru based RMW install, and the Bostig has significantly higher departure angle than all conversions, 1.8t being the lowest departure angle.

I don't take offense to your comments about Apple, I take it as a compliment, and you have an excellent point. The evil part isn't true, but we are very much like Apple. We offer a unified system that will definitely work for anyone that wants to use it. The other options like subaru based installs are more like DIY PCs. You can indeed get excellent bang for the buck if you know what you are doing and put in the time, but you'll have to do a lot more work, and have a lot more expertise to do it. In addition the risks will be higher down the road, just like the Apple vs. PC debate except in gremlins not viruses/malware.

You can read about our philosophy in the blog on the site as to why we believe this is a better approach for those less interested in building/modding vanagons and more interested in travelling/driving vanagons, which is who we build for.

As for the slogan. We just have more conversions/miles than any other vendor (and we are not nearly the oldest either), and all those people trusted us and our products with their money/time/effort. They wrote it for us.

-Jim Akiba
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

furrylittleotter,
Why the sour grapes over a conversion you didn't employ?
That last photo you posted is mine: I used the Ford Contour pan w/o any change in tire size on my 2WD. I have 6.5" of clearance (it actuall does clear the curb!). There's complete drainage and it's the fastest, simplest oil change I've ever performed. Wish I had the shorter pan? Sure, but don't need it in my application. I routinely roll a wheel up on the curb to crawl under my other cars for clearance and drainage to the plug. Big deal, not!
My next new family ride will be a new Subaru. Love them! It will have the same clearance as my bus and I won't bitch a bit...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try backing onto ramps situated/staggered so that the rear driver side is a bit higher than passenger rear. Also, stuff a rag behind the drain plug between the pan and the skidplate to keep oil from flowing back onto the plate. I've heard of people backing the driver rear tire onto a curb.
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buildyourown
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man. I like my Bostig but I hate all things Apple. What am I to do?


And no, the conversion isn't infallible. I deviated from the kit a bit, and I think there are some flaws. I saw things, that as an engineer/machinist/mechanic I just didn't like. I changed them. Overall it is the easiest install with the best quality parts of current options.

When I first did my oil change, I was parked on a slight slope. Nose up. I flipped the van and jacked rear tire a couple inches. Got a solid drain.
All the other cars I've ever worked on definitly leave 1/2 qt in the pan or more.
The drain plug is actually easy to reach. You can get it from the top, with the skid plate on. No crawling on the ground.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bostig wrote:
If you have the skidplate installed all the time, then you need to lift the driver's side and use a bit of cardboard or plastic with a crease to drain it.

Flexible funnel from Pig here might be helpful. http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/
Available at their website (enter flexible funnel in search) , Northern Tool and elsewhere.
Hope this helps someone.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bostig wrote:
On the draining of the HC Oilpan, without the skidplate you'll get just about eveything out other than the height of the threads and gasket radius needed to seal when level. If you put the driver's wheel up on a ramp or jack it you can get more, but it shouldn't be enough to be worth it.

If you have the skidplate installed all the time, then you need to lift the driver's side and use a bit of cardboard or plastic with a crease to drain it. This is so that no low point (as seen in OEM stock pans) is needed, which increases cost, adds a lower hit point, and would require the entire skidplate to be that much lower.

If you are still suspicious you aren't getting enough, call, email, or submit a ticket and we can figure out if anything else/weird is going on.

furrylittleotter wrote:

I am pleased my stock Subaru pan drains just fine and is still higher that a bostig. Cool


Neil2, if you're game: with your van on even pavement, can you measure your ground clearance at the lowest point, along with the distance from the ground to your wheel arch (body panel, middle of the bottom edge of the arch) height?

If you have subie stock pan, you should be a couple inches worse off than a Bostig with the HC Oilpan. Early versions used to have worse ground clearance but we are now equal or better to recent subaru based installs we have data for. For instance Syncro Bo https://www.facebook.com/SyncroBo gained .5" when it was converted from a 2.2L subaru based RMW install, and the Bostig has significantly higher departure angle than all conversions, 1.8t being the lowest departure angle.

I don't take offense to your comments about Apple, I take it as a compliment, and you have an excellent point. The evil part isn't true, but we are very much like Apple. We offer a unified system that will definitely work for anyone that wants to use it. The other options like subaru based installs are more like DIY PCs. You can indeed get excellent bang for the buck if you know what you are doing and put in the time, but you'll have to do a lot more work, and have a lot more expertise to do it. In addition the risks will be higher down the road, just like the Apple vs. PC debate except in gremlins not viruses/malware.

You can read about our philosophy in the blog on the site as to why we believe this is a better approach for those less interested in building/modding vanagons and more interested in travelling/driving vanagons, which is who we build for.

As for the slogan. We just have more conversions/miles than any other vendor (and we are not nearly the oldest either), and all those people trusted us and our products with their money/time/effort. They wrote it for us.

-Jim Akiba


I am a die hard Subaru fanatic,both in my career and my conversion,and I have to say this is the most impressive,professional and level headed response Ive seen on any conversion thread.Although in fairness,RMW also seems to have quite an impressive repor as well.
Good on you,Jim Akiba!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so jimbo, why is the drain pointing forward instead of to the right? seems like it would make draining with the skid plate way easier.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a beef with Bostig or any person that chooses to use their conversion. Go forth and prosper.

What I do have a problem with is how the have been portrayed at the "End-all", "be-all", Ultimate conversion company and their conversions as all that and a bag of chips, they can do no wrong and their conversions either, much like Apple, which is a company I could rip to shreds for a million reasons, yet they have an unbelievable pass from even the most ardent anti-capitalists in this country who go to great lengths to rip to shreds every single business in the country except Apple.

Is this a legitimate beef? Maybe, maybe not, but it amuses me to compare the two sets of followers who appear to worship the companies like a bunch of moonies.



IF I point out what is glaringly obvious to all but the sun-worshippers I do so with all the best of intentions and wishes…. If my observations do not apply, simply ignore them, if they do, consider them a challenge.





I am intentionally ignoring your so-called challenge to measure my oil pan because 1. I do not believe in vendors taking to a public forum being utilized by consumers. I think you have made it clear that you will continue to operate as a company that sells a pan that can not be drained normally or properly among other interesting habits. 2. That is a pointless test. 3. Isn't it the vendor's job to show the advantages of their conversion? 4. Trust me, you would be embarrassed if I did. You're welcome.

I find it very strange that a vanagon owner would think having an oil pan that can clear a kerb or a mere 6.5 inches of clearance is a lot…My girlfriend's Versa has that much clearance. Don't Vanagons with horizontally opposed engines (as God intended) typically have twice that? (I know mine does…oops)

I am sure by version 20 they will have everything perfected…again, or not.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Neil2, that's a lot of hatin' and I'm not gonna' try to stop ya.

But I will say this... I've watched Bostig and all the other conversion options out there for 100k waiting for my motor to get tired. I carefully considered them all and like things about each. None are perfect and all have some great features. But here's what I loved most about the Bostig conversion....

I spent 3 1/2 days on the conversion. (Without a lift or a real shop) and had no previous experience with the zetec or transplants in general. At the end of that process, I got in my van, turned the key, and DROVE IT HOME! That's it. Done.

THAT is what really sets Jim and the guys apart. Show me any other conversion system that matches that.

YMMV, (but mine is running about 22mpg... Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil2, I hope we can turn that passion into constructive product development by adding your experiences and empirical data.

So on your zetec conversion, you have had problems with the oil draining from the high clearance oil pan and would prefer that the plug was more convenient?
And you have insufficient ground clearance (6" you said?) on your zetec conversion?

Let's see if we can't solve those problems for you as a community of zetec owners willing to provide support for our standardized and well supported conversion, in addition to the help that bostig will provide when you submit your service ticket or call them with your emergency.
Right?

Because surely you wouldn't be citing low clearance on a conversion you don't even own or have empirical data for, or complain about the ease of maintenance on a vehicle you essentially don't own, you're certainly wiser then that.
I'm not about to start talking about how poorly my mclarren f1 dives into the corners under braking or how difficult it is for me to adjust the valves on my Audi r8, because I don't own them....or have experience with them.

The "challenge" that Jim issued was just to see if your conversion actually is better in terms of ground clearance. It can be measured and compared, it's not an opinion, it's data.
It is my opinion and the opinion of most that the zetec does LOOK low, because it's a single low point centered in the frame. It draws the eye down and looks low, as opposed to a wbxer or Subaru which has a consistent low point drawing the eyes across (mustache bar or muffler). There is no denying that the zetec aesthetically looks low, but we can actually PROVE, with FACTS and measurements what the actual clearance is.

But low clearance is really the issue right?
I've got no trouble at all crawling under mine and while I certainly don't have a large belly, if it's tall enough to drive over me, it's tall enough to drive over most things.

Myself and many other owners take our zetec powered syncros through some aggressive off roading conditions and have no clearance relate problems.
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thatvwbusguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I am trying to figure out is who is deeming the Bostig conversion "the end-all, be-all ultimate conversion company and their conversions as all that and a bag of chips".

Oh right, that would be all of their happy customers.

Obvious troll is obvious.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally thought joining a cult and getting a solid, dependable conversion was worth it. My friend is 100x the mechanic I am, and is installing a subaru into his Westy. It's taking months, and I know I could never do that. Bostig's paint by numbers approach makes it doable for anyone.

See you all at the big bonfire on the Boston Common, looking forward to dancing naked during the full moon. Just hope my feathered head dress is back from the dry cleaners.....
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