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voeltzwagen
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 173
Location: Minneapolis
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 Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: sunroof transplant |
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The more I pull my '71 SB apart, and the more rust I find, I've come to the conclusion that the only part of the body that doesn't look like swiss cheese is the roof and sunroof section (and cargo floor).
Instead of rebuilding all four inner fender wells, bumper mounts, rockers, heater channels, replacing both doors and all four fenders, I do believe I will concede and save the sunroof section for a future transplant over to my '73.
To those of you with experience in this matter - I can see all of the functional parts I'll need to make it work, but how much of the roof sheet metal should I bring along with it? There is no rust on the roof, but there is some very light hail damage.
Thanks!
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1973 Squareback, AT, A/C, FI |
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Der Speed Shack
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2010
Posts: 164
Location: Fullerton, Ca 92832
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| cut it thru the post for now, it will keep everything straight until you're ready to graft |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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There are actually 3 ways to do a sunroof graft ;
#1...... you cut a hole 1 1/2 inches thinner and shorter than the sunroof clip ,drop the clip on the roof or push it up from inside and do a whole lot of welding
#2...... You cut the sunroof clip off inside the edge of the gutter and remove the rivets along the top of the windshield...This saves a lot of welding problems with the welding in the gutter and the front welds ending up under the windshield rubber . ( do a search " replacing a roof car rolled over " in the 58 to 67 forum)
#3...... You peel apart the gutters on both roofs and then roll them back together then do the windshield rivet trick
When cutting the old sunroof off you should get 2 inches of front and rear posts AND the gutters
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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voeltzwagen
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 173
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, Guys!
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1973 Squareback, AT, A/C, FI |
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squaretobehip
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 3686
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:42 am Post subject: |
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_________________
1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue
Follow ISP West on:
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squaretobehip
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 3686
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Edit - Sorry I don't know why that posted twice.
_________________
1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue
Follow ISP West on:
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Last edited by squaretobehip on Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:52 am Post subject: |
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^^ Yup, that would be the way I'd do it. But for now, I'd cut thru the posts (down low), and set it off to the side.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
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| Tram wrote: |
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voeltzwagen
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 173
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Bob - That is what I plan on doing. I've already marked the posts a few inches down; just need to remove the glass then find the sawzall!
From that point I'll simply raise it up to the rafters directly above the car, and store it in the air until it's time for the '73 to get a makeover.
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1973 Squareback, AT, A/C, FI |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| voeltzwagen wrote: |
Bob - That is what I plan on doing. I've already marked the posts a few inches down; just need to remove the glass then find the sawzall!
From that point I'll simply raise it up to the rafters directly above the car, and store it in the air until it's time for the '73 to get a makeover.
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I was trained to cut the posts at the body line for a roof graft. Then, we would spot weld some "guide metal" inside the posts and put the top on, fit all the windows with throwaway seals, and tack the top in place at the posts. Remove the windows, do your full weld, paint, install windows with fresh seals. The guide metal also gives you a filler/ backer base.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing those pics. I wondered how someone would go about changing the roof out to get a sunroof in. I saw pics in the Blue Book about changing the roof skin but with a sunroof, the rails, and other pieces were a question I had on a swap. What's holds the gutter lips together? Is it just the metal bent over or if there some sort of seam sealer that you have to work thru to get into the seam?
I have a 70 parts square with a sunroof and the thought had crossed my mind to transplant the sunroof. I don't think it would fit anyway since my car is a 67 so I abandoned the thought of it.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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VWCOOL
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes cut through the base of the posts for now - and consider that method for the graft, too, as it is a LOT less welding and work |
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squaretobehip
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 3686
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
Thanks for sharing those pics. I wondered how someone would go about changing the roof out to get a sunroof in. I saw pics in the Blue Book about changing the roof skin but with a sunroof, the rails, and other pieces were a question I had on a swap. What's holds the gutter lips together? Is it just the metal bent over or if there some sort of seam sealer that you have to work thru to get into the seam?
I have a 70 parts square with a sunroof and the thought had crossed my mind to transplant the sunroof. I don't think it would fit anyway since my car is a 67 so I abandoned the thought of it. |
Oh it'll fit. Once you work the folded over lip up, you'll see all the spot welds holding the roof skin on. Drill those out, cut the skin at the A-pillar, drill the spot welds around the top lip of the windshield opening, and that's pretty much most if it. You'll have to add the drains down the A post and C post.
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1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue
Follow ISP West on:
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| squaretobehip wrote: |
| MonT3 wrote: |
Thanks for sharing those pics. I wondered how someone would go about changing the roof out to get a sunroof in. I saw pics in the Blue Book about changing the roof skin but with a sunroof, the rails, and other pieces were a question I had on a swap. What's holds the gutter lips together? Is it just the metal bent over or if there some sort of seam sealer that you have to work thru to get into the seam?
I have a 70 parts square with a sunroof and the thought had crossed my mind to transplant the sunroof. I don't think it would fit anyway since my car is a 67 so I abandoned the thought of it. |
Oh it'll fit. Once you work the folded over lip up, you'll see all the spot welds holding the roof skin on. Drill those out, cut the skin at the A-pillar, drill the spot welds around the top lip of the windshield opening, and that's pretty much most if it. You'll have to add the drains down the A post and C post. |
Ah man, I need to really think about this. I need to inspect the set up as there are a lot of pine needles in the tracks. I'll ponder it all while putting the shell back together. Tempting though 
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Last edited by MonT3 on Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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The photos are of ISP West doing my fastback, and based on the flawless results, that's the way to do it!
A lot of labor, but despite the fear factor, this way looks to be the simplest with the best chance of an invisible graft.
They did all the drains right and painted everything inside and out for a rust-free and leak-free job.
I used it driving up to the Meet in the Middle outside of Solvang today, and the extra air and sunshine was welcome. Made it easier to get photos on the drive, too!  |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9640
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Where do the water tubes run down from the back of the sunroof channels? Down the C pillars? No mention of these so far. I'd imagine that if you left those off when installing the new sunroof section, you'd soon get water leakage into the car coming down from the headliner... Might even happen from washing your car, if you don't drive in the rain. |
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voeltzwagen
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 173
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Where do the water tubes run down from the back of the sunroof channels? Down the C pillars? No mention of these so far. I'd imagine that if you left those off when installing the new sunroof section, you'd soon get water leakage into the car coming down from the headliner... Might even happen from washing your car, if you don't drive in the rain. |
Yep, rears go down the C pillars and exit in the rear fender well; fronts go down the A pillars and exit in the front fender wells. There is a short length of vinyl tubing in each corner that connects the sunroof drains to the pillars, and a rubber "nozzle/grommet" at the exit in the fender well. I do not know what is inside the pillars, but will in a few days. I'll take pictures of it all before and after I cut it apart. The drains are one of the few "functional" parts I knew I'd need to transplant.
Cheers,
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1973 Squareback, AT, A/C, FI |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| voeltzwagen wrote: |
| Rome wrote: |
| Where do the water tubes run down from the back of the sunroof channels? Down the C pillars? No mention of these so far. I'd imagine that if you left those off when installing the new sunroof section, you'd soon get water leakage into the car coming down from the headliner... Might even happen from washing your car, if you don't drive in the rain. |
Yep, rears go down the C pillars and exit in the rear fender well; fronts go down the A pillars and exit in the front fender wells. There is a short length of vinyl tubing in each corner that connects the sunroof drains to the pillars, and a rubber "nozzle/grommet" at the exit in the fender well. I do not know what is inside the pillars, but will in a few days. I'll take pictures of it all before and after I cut it apart. The drains are one of the few "functional" parts I knew I'd need to transplant.
Cheers, |
Not sure on a Square, but on a Notch or Fastback, the rear pipes are plastic tube. The fronts are steel tube running inside the windshield frame posts ("A" posts).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Not sure on a Square, but on a Notch or Fastback, the rear pipes are plastic tube. The fronts are steel tube running inside the windshield frame posts ("A" posts). |
Is it plastic all the way, or a short plastic (coupler) between the roof and C-pillar metal tubes? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Not sure on a Square, but on a Notch or Fastback, the rear pipes are plastic tube. The fronts are steel tube running inside the windshield frame posts ("A" posts). |
Is it plastic all the way, or a short plastic (coupler) between the roof and C-pillar metal tubes? |
All plastic tube on my 65 Notch.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ALLWAGONS
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000
Posts: 4186
Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Not sure on a Square, but on a Notch or Fastback, the rear pipes are plastic tube. The fronts are steel tube running inside the windshield frame posts ("A" posts). |
Is it plastic all the way, or a short plastic (coupler) between the roof and C-pillar metal tubes? |
In my '65 square there are four plastic tubes that connect to metal tubes from sunroof to body.
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I'd be UNSTOPPABLE if not for Law Enforcement and PHYSICS.
I recycle old cars and parts, other than when I rot, that's as Green as I am going to get.
Thanks to my Tesla driving neighbors, I feel more relaxed driving my SUBURBAN and old VW's.
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