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1950split
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 454
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 Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:20 pm Post subject: Starter working with ignition switch in off position |
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Hi everybody,
I am about to finish the work on my 1965 bus.
I renewed the whole wiring with a harness from wiring works. Starter is the 6v which was on the car previously and worked well.
I checked every item when I was done with the wiring and everything was fine.
But now, with the engine in the car, my starter revolves with the ignition in the off position.
The wiring loom has 3 wires at the ignition switch. A plain red that I connected to 30, a red with black strip on it, connected to 50 and a thin plain black connected to 15.
At the starter I connected the plain red with an eyelet connector to the side of the starter (30), the red with black strip to the spade connector on top of the starter (50).
I noticed that the instructions which came with the harness do not mention how to connect the red/black stripped wire but there are not many options.
I think this is correct so I am bit confused.
What I added after the initial wiring tests is the engine and my freshly restored Bn4 that I connected to 30 on the starter, as per factory specs. But I guess that if current was going that route to the starter, the heater would be working too.
During the 12v conversion I swapped the 6v regulator with a 2nd hand unit which looks good. Could a damaged regulator cause this issue ?
Any hints anyone?
Thanks,
Phil |
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olliehank47
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Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Starter working with ignition switch in off position |
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| 1950split wrote: |
Hi everybody,
I am about to finish the work on my 1965 bus.
I renewed the whole wiring with a harness from wiring works. Starter is the 6v which was on the car previously and worked well.
I checked every item when I was done with the wiring and everything was fine.
But now, with the engine in the car, my starter revolves with the ignition in the off position.
The wiring loom has 3 wires at the ignition switch. A plain red that I connected to 30, a red with black strip on it, connected to 50 and a thin plain black connected to 15.
At the starter I connected the plain red with an eyelet connector to the side of the starter (30), the red with black strip to the spade connector on top of the starter (50).
I noticed that the instructions which came with the harness do not mention how to connect the red/black stripped wire but there are not many options.
I think this is correct so I am bit confused.
What I added after the initial wiring tests is the engine and my freshly restored Bn4 that I connected to 30 on the starter, as per factory specs. But I guess that if current was going that route to the starter, the heater would be working too.
During the 12v conversion I swapped the 6v regulator with a 2nd hand unit which looks good. Could a damaged regulator cause this issue ?
Any hints anyone?
Thanks,
Phil |
If I understand you correctly, your starter runs as soon as you connect the wires, even with the ignition switch "off"? If so, you might try a quick check of the ignition switch itself. You can use a multimeter with the switch completely removed/disconnected, or a test light. If using a test light, do the following:
1) Connect the wire of the test light to ground. Connect power to terminal 30
2) With the key "off", touch the light to terminal 50. Does it light? If so, the switch is faulty.
3) If the light doesn't come on, repeat the test with the switch "on". If the light comes on, the switch is faulty.
4) Turn the key to "start" and touch terminal 50, the light should come on.
5) Turn the key on, off, and to start, several times and be sure the light goes out with the key in the "off" and "on" positions.
6) If terminal 50 proves good, repeat the same test with terminal 15, using only the "off/on" positions of the switch. It should get power only with the ignition on.
If the switch functions properly, double check you wiring connections at the dash. Does the red wire from terminal 30 (ignition switch) connect to 30 at the light switch, and does 30 at the light switch connect to the fuse block where it shares a connection with the heavy red wire from the battery? Your connections at the starter all sound correct. |
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1950split
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Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 454
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Hank,
Yes, as soon as I connect the battery wires the starter runs, with no consideration to whether the ignition switch is in Off/On/Start position.
I will give a shot at the test light procedures described by you. What mostly annoys me is that the engine I fitted is brand new and hasn't gone through the cam break-in. Hence I don't want to have it revolve too much before and put unnecessary stress on the parts.
What I don't really understand is why the starter didn't do this before I fitted the engine, while doing my after-wiring tests ?!? |
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2true
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 1218
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| 1950split wrote: |
Thanks Hank,
Yes, as soon as I connect the battery wires the starter runs, with no consideration to whether the ignition switch is in Off/On/Start position.
I will give a shot at the test light procedures described by you. What mostly annoys me is that the engine I fitted is brand new and hasn't gone through the cam break-in. Hence I don't want to have it revolve too much before and put unnecessary stress on the parts.
What I don't really understand is why the starter didn't do this before I fitted the engine, while doing my after-wiring tests ?!? |
Stuck Solenoid?
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AKA Destroyer of the Rants...... |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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new flywheel?
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regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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1950split
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Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 454
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps.. So how can a solenoid be unstuck?
The bus was not driven since 2007 as I had another project running. But by then it was functionning perfectly. |
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mandraks
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Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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tap it with a hammer, turn the motor back and forth by hand?
_________________
regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Starter working with ignition switch in off position |
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| 1950split wrote: |
| But now, with the engine in the car, my starter revolves with the ignition in the off position. |
Was the battery connected before the engine went in? So, now if you connect the battery it does it? |
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olliehank47
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Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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All the posts about the solenoid are possibilities as well. I doesn't matter which solution you try first, but if you're leaving the engine in and you don't want it to turn over, the test for the ignition switch will accomplish that and either eliminate the switch as the problem (leaving the solenoid), or will confirm the switch is faulty. Though the switch test is easy, it may be easier to try tapping the solenoid, rotating the engine back and forth, just to see if anything changes. However, if you're going to crawl under to bang the solenoid, you might as well disconnect the wire from the start circuit (50) and run a quick test to see if it is hot. If it is, your problem is with the switch.
Lots of ways to skin this cat.
Keep us up to date. |
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1950split
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 454
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I found the source of the issue today.
After testing the ignition switch as per hanks explanation I had the confirmation that it was not the culprit.
I then looked at the starter and noticed that the connector of the heater was very slightly touching the spade connector of the wire that goes from the solenoid to the ignition switch.
So thanks to everyone for your help! Tomorrow is the day ! My bus will be running after a 7 years long nap! |
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