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T3 Gear linkage differences, petrol, diesel and Syncro
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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: T3 Gear linkage differences, petrol, diesel and Syncro Reply with quote

Here are some pics I took of the gear linkages that I have from vans I've broken over the years.

First the rear sections:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


From the top down,

The top two are diesel 2WD. The diesel gearbox and engine are mounted higher in the body than the petrol gearbox and engine.

The centre one if from a Syncro, the gearbox and engine are mount further down in the body.

The bottom two are for petrol 2WD.

Next is a photo of the front sections:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The top one is from a Syncro van.

The next one down is from a diesel 2WD van, note that is has a small kink at the right hand end.

The bottom two are from petrol 2WD.

I have converted several 2WD vans to Syncro and managed to use the original 2WD linkage by simply bending it to match up. Also, the front section has cleared the front diff despite not having the section that is bent up to give more room.

Also, I have converted from petrol to diesel and again, I have managed to modify the original petrol linkage to work on the diesel (this is on my daily driver Tristar 2WD).

Obviously the best and easiest way is to just change to which ever one suits your application, but you can modify and make it work.

All of the above linkages are for later style gearboxes, not pre '83 with the three bolt gearbox mount as on air-cooled vans.

I hope that this helps other nutters like me who are always modifying and changing their vans around Laughing

MG
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zeohsix
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing Mods should make this a sticky. Great reference for future troubleshooting.
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Farfrumwork
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info!! Applause


I was wondering if which front linkage I should use on my syncro conversion. Might a well use the syncro component as i have it pulled from the donor van already. (I have the rear section already from the syncro transmission install a couple years ago)


Thanks again

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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just following on from the original post, I have realised that I missed off another piece of information that might cause some issues when swapping parts over.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This info is from ETOS. If anyone knows differently, please let me know.

MG
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall a recent thread where the poster was having a problem with the shifter ball not being deep enough in the cup. I think it was resolved by loosening the bolts and prying the support bracket up. Looks like there are two cups based on those photos. Good to know.
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about the bolting on the socket mount while applying upward pressure. Letting it fall can result in locking up of the gearshift, as the socket’s angle is too acute to move the ball. You have to crawl under the van to move the lever towards the center. This normally happens with worn parts.
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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just installed a Syncro gearbox to a Syncro van than my customer bought running with a 2WD gearbox.

When fitting up the linkage to the Syncro gearbox, I realised that the wrong bracket was being used as the socket was a long way off the ball when it a gear was selected.

This is what reminded me that I'd forgotten to include the info here Smile

MG
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have all of the USDM 2wd and Syncro parts MG has shown, brand new from VW.
Last year I had the Syncro parts copied by my local fabricator out of stainless steel.
I used the linkage tips available from T3technique.

So far so good.

After more miles to make sure that there are absolutely no issues with the parts, I will make them available for sale in the classifieds.

As an aside, coating the interior of the shafts with Wurth wax or sprayable sound deadener has made a huge decrease in noise transmitted by the linkage into the cabin.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:


As an aside, coating the interior of the shafts with Wurth wax or sprayable sound deadener has made a huge decrease in noise transmitted by the linkage into the cabin.


I always wondered if that would make a difference worthy of note. Good to hear that it does.

And thanks, Michael, for sharing this information. I'm sure that it will be helpful to others down the road who may be experiencing shifting issues due to mismatched parts.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not using the aftermarket billet rear cup and extremely hard aftermarket bushings will cut down on the noise transfer too Wink
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the US market the early vanagons had a 3 piece shift rod setup. Add to that there were subtle differences between the air cooled and 82 diesel rear rod.

The noticeable difference for the early setup is the rear shaft. Rather than being supported by a bushing like the ones above, the rod slipped over a pin at the transmission. Here is a picture of my original 82 rear section.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can see the pin lower right.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have those over here also.

They also have different linkage parts and different mounting brackets at the front as the gearbox sits much higher in the diesel install than in the petrol version.

Check out the height of this early diesel bracket in comparison.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


MG
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shyt, I didn't know about the bushing plate at the transmission on the Syncro was different. I gotta check that out on the pile of parts that's waiting to be assembled.

One thing I will never understand is the difference of the shifter cup 251711973(A) on a Syncro between diesel and petrol: transmission sits at the exact same spot, bushing plate 251711187B is the same between syncro's….
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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Shyt, I didn't know about the bushing plate at the transmission on the Syncro was different. I gotta check that out on the pile of parts that's waiting to be assembled.

One thing I will never understand is the difference of the shifter cup 251711973(A) on a Syncro between diesel and petrol: transmission sits at the exact same spot, bushing plate 251711187B is the same between syncro's….


I know what you mean. It doesn't make sense.

I did think that the engine could be at a different height on the diesel but that wouldn't make sense for the propshaft angle.

It's always possible that the parts manual is incorrect.

MG
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a side drawing of a 2wd diesel. It shows the install angle. Not that it explains anything, but it looks cool.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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SyncroGhia
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2WD diesel setup moves the gearbox around all over the place.

Not only does the 2WD gearbox sit higher but the mount is in a difference place centrally.

The Syncro uses the same gearbox mounts on both.

Good to see it in a diagram Smile

MG
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