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The Saga of my 1.8T Vanagon
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hans j
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAF sounds decent then. How about try to pinch off the N80 valve (EVAP purge valve) and drive it around. I'm wondering if it's sticking open and drawing in fuel vapor?
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xoo00oox
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure to check the diverter valve. Make sure it hold vaccum and moves the plunger.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I removed the N80 (I googled what it was and I have one Very Happy ) and I sucked on the valve and no air could get through. I put 12V to it and it clicked. I plugged both hoses going to it and went for a drive. The LTFT moved from -18.8 to -13.3 gradually and seem to settle there after about 20 minutes of mixed driving. I put the hoses back and it gradually rose back up to - 17.2.

Below are old pics but they show what this van has for a diverter valve. The hose was broken when I got the van but there is a new vaccum line from the nipple to the intake manifold now. When I remove the hose from manifold and suck on it, it creates some vacuum but air bleeds down in 2-3 seconds. Those lines don't have any hose clamps on them, I don't know if they should. I don't know how to tell if the plunger is moving.

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BTW, I cleaned off that oil a long time ago and it has not returned.
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Thanks,
Dave
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hans j
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can take the DV off and push on the plunger, hold the vacuum nipple and see if it stays pushed up. I would highly recommend a stock 710N DV over that aftermarket one. I can mail you one if you want, I have piles of them.

This is a N80 valve, circled in green
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Where do those hoses go?

Have a compressor? Head on over to the Home Depot Motorsports isle and build a boost pressure tester http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5149361-DIY-Boost-Leak-Tester

I haven't looked, do you have more photos of your conversion?
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is getting outside my skillset. I am heading back to the shop this morning. If they don't figure it out I'll try a different place.

I diid just swap out that TurboS diverter valve for a stock 710A valve I had gotten from the junkyad. That didn't hold vacuum very well. The stock one I just put on held vacuum completely and the spring compressed so I assume it's good. But there was no change in the LTFT after 30 minutes of driving, still -18%
Dave
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hans j
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they have a smoke machine, have them smoke the intake. Also make sure one way valves are in place for any hose that comes off of intake manifold. Wish I was a bit closer, wouldn't take too long to sort out!
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I appreciate that. They did use smoke to find the throttle body leak. They tried again and he said they pressure checked it at 5psi, section by section and don't see any leaks. They said the diverter valve was in backwards and swapped it around. He thought that fixed it and took it for a short drive and said it was fine.

BUT, that didn't fix it. After 15 more minutes of driving and some hard throttle, the negative LTFT is climbing back up. I've read people turn the diverter valves around on purpose, so I didn't think it was gonna matter anyway. But they didn't have any more time to look at it now.

I wonder if unplugging the MAF and driving it that way for a bit will tell me anything?
Dave
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hans j
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reversing the DV doesn't do really anything, I prefer to run them how the factory set them up...

Is your ECU chipped? 5psi might not be enough to find a leak. I usually run cars up to 15psi.

Unplugging the MAF won't give you much feedback in fuel trim, it just goes into a base program and inserts it's own numbers.

Can I get some better overhead photos of the engine? You can PM them to me if you like.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Saga is finally coming to a close. In all, I stripped and redid the interior, added the poptop, went through pretty much every mechanical system, lifted it, added truckfridge and awning, a 3 window canvas, upgraded to fiberglass bumpers and power mirrors, redid the exhaust twice, added sound deadening, replaced both heater cores and fans, put in LED lighting everywhere, installed real gauges, and did a thousand little touch ups.


Hopefully the last major expense for this one will be the APR performance chip (200 HP) that is going in this week. Stay tuned for the first trip report on that, I canít wait.


This is my 4th vanagon and each has taken 3 years of steady effort to get them to where they should be. And this was the most intense. Iím starting to wear out on these old things. Really, I think I can only do it one more time. Very Happy Brick wall Very Happy Did I mention I'm getting it chipped this week. Very Happy

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TequilaSunSet
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B R A V O
Applause Applause Applause
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Love My Westy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job Dave. Are you bringing it to SS? I look forward to seeing you there.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work. I just reread the entire thread. What a difference you've made.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had some time to see how my new APR chipped ECU responds. It is very nice. I was expecting to notice a huge difference right out of the driveway but it felt exactly the same. Around town it has the same mellow acceleration until you have space to gun it. It feels like just having a lot more pedal. The first half of the peddle it just tools around like it did before. Then the next 25 percent or so it boosts a little higher and is a little more lively but pretty similar driving feel. But when you stomp on it the boost jumps to 16-18psi and it takes off briskly.
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I'm surprised that they make it boost that high (maxes around 18 psi). But I trust they know what they are doing. I'll try not to max it out for any extended periods. The turbo and engine bay does get hotter and the low speed fan cycles more gunning it around town.

It still feels like a smooth power band with no downside to drivability or jerkiness but you can feel the turbo really kicking in when you stomp on it and get into the higher RPMs. I can now notice a bit of turbo lag shifting from 3rd to 4th which I usually do around 45 mph. It takes a second for it to take off again in 4th after the RPMs drop. Because the big power comes on at higher rpms, it seems like it is asking to keep it in 3rd longer. On the highway it feels good. Cruising along at 55 or 60 in 4th the power feels pretty instantaneous if you floor it.

I don't see any negatives yet except I assume it is putting more stress on things, and the turbo goes generate extra heat. This upgrade didn't require any other changes besides sending them the ECU and having the chip soldered in. This Stage 1 upgrade is the only one available from APR for the AEB and requires 91 octane which I use anyway. Their sites shows wheel horsepower of 200 with 243 ft lbs of torque. For $399 this is an amazing upgrade for the 150 hp models. (it was $349 on sale when I bought mine last week). I guess it wouldn't be as much an upgrade to a stock 180HP model but on a 150hp model it makes a big difference.
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_a418t.html

[edit] One possible negative I noticed today. Tailpipe has more soot than it did. I am hammering the thing right now, so possibly it is due to that. I'm sure I'll stop pushing it from light to light in a little while. Still no drivability issues but the soot might eventually foul the plugs, or maybe I need different plugs with the extra gas the ECU is giving it. I may call APR and see what they think.
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kuleinc
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No difference in pedal "boost"? When I had mine chipped it felt like they turned the gain up on the drive by wire pedal.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuleinc wrote:
No difference in pedal "boost"? When I had mine chipped it felt like they turned the gain up on the drive by wire pedal.

It's not like just having a bigger engine, where you just touch the gas and it feel more powerful. The first 50% of pedal is what all of it felt like before. And the second 50% is where the big gains are. It is still linear, but if I put a block under the pedal so it could only go down halfway, I bet it would feel pretty much like it did. It only makes more power when it is boosting and it only boosts above its old limit when I am using more than half the peddle, if that makes sense. I'd have to drive another one to really tell the difference.

I noticed my gas tank needle dropped pretty quick in this couple days of test drives. I'll check my mileage on this trip to Moab next week. If I take it easy, I hope I can still get the same great gas mileage.
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Gruppe B
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job!
I love how it turned out. Well thought out and looks great

I have to thank you too for the Aleko thread, absolutely love the awning

Cheers
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re your LTFT over rich condition and the fact that from your images the prior owner may have been slightly askewer in judgment I would recommend you check your FPR (fuel pressure regulator) it's very easy to do, just remove a simple clip, use a rag so that gas does not spray everywhere. The regulator pressure should be stamped on the regulator. I belief that engine (AEB) utilized a 3 bar FPR, along with 210cc injectors, concerning your other question on the AEB the throttle is limited to 80 % at full RPM by the ECU. It's quite common for individuals with questionable judgement to replace the FPR with a 4 bar unit. You may want to check the injectors as well. later models utilized larger injectors. A tuned AEB can use a 4 bar FPR if the tuner take into account the pressure when he adjusts the fuel maps.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greebly wrote:
Re your LTFT over rich condition and the fact that from your images the prior owner may have been slightly askewer in judgment I would recommend you check your FPR (fuel pressure regulator) it's very easy to do, just remove a simple clip, use a rag so that gas does not spray everywhere. The regulator pressure should be stamped on the regulator. I belief that engine (AEB) utilized a 3 bar FPR, along with 210cc injectors, concerning your other question on the AEB the throttle is limited to 80 % at full RPM by the ECU. It's quite common for individuals with questionable judgement to replace the FPR with a 4 bar unit. You may want to check the injectors as well. later models utilized larger injectors. A tuned AEB can use a 4 bar FPR if the tuner take into account the pressure when he adjusts the fuel maps.

Interesting, I swapped one from the junkyard and didn't notice a difference so I moved on to the next thing. But I just looked at the one I pulled and it is 4.0 bar. I'll have to see what the one I put in is. Thanks

[2nd edit] searching the internet, I think I found what the Passat & A4 AEBs used. 210cc injectors (rated at 3 bar), but they used a 4 bar FPR which delivered 240cc, so some sites say they are 240cc injectors but they are really [email protected] 3bar. So my injectors (210) and FPR (4bar) are correct for the engine. Some other early VW models used the 210cc injectors with a 3 bar FPR, I forget which ones they said, Jetta Golf Beetle maybe. I am probably safer running the 4bar FPR even it is shows a slightly rich condition.
Dave
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People with the AEB (or other 150hp models) should consider the APR chip. I did a 1300 mile trip to Moab and back and it is a joy to drive with the extra power.

No need to downshift on steep highway grades. There is really no place you have to downshift to get enough climbing power. It runs up Eisenhower and Vail Pass in 4th gear at any speed you want. It can accelerate in 4th if you get slowed down momentarily behind a truck or something. That is with a moderately loaded westy and 1" bigger tires. Here in CO, I wouldn't want to go with a bigger tire and loose that. It is just so nice to cruise up in 4th at 65mph and 3600rpm. Before the chip, I was between 3rd and 4th and had to downshift at the steepest parts to get the rpms back up. Then in 4th I would have to keep it floored. I'm not particularly into power, but it is just so much more pleasant to drive without worrying about downshifting. I didn't mind the higher rpms with the subaru 2.5, it seemed to get smoother and quieter the higher you went past 4K rpm. This engine just seems more comfortable at 4K and under. Could be just mine, but it is nice to have the option to keep the rpms down going up the passes. And passing people whenever you want or when you don't have a lot of room is nice too. I thought the 150hp was fine, but this is really much better suited to the van.

And my gas mileage is better. The highest I got before on highway driving at 65-70 was 22.5 and averaged 21 to 21.5 on trips. With the chip, I got 25.4 on the highway drive out, and averaged 23.25 MPG over the 1300 mile trip.

Another nice surprise, the engine runs a bit cooler (I'm sure the turbo is getting hotter though). Highest coolant temps used to go up to 205 to 210. The highest it goes now is 200 to 205. Must be something in the program, maybe better fuel mapping or something.

Unless it craps out, or I break something, this chip is awesome. I was thinking of picking up a spare stock ECU, but I don't see any reason I would ever want to swap it out. I'll report back if anything goes wrong during long term testing. But so far, so great!!
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_a418t.html
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greebly
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you pick up a spare ECU you will need to have the immobilizer removed. I am able to do that if anyone plans on converting to a TDI or 1.8T.
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