Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Overheating and feel like I have tried everything, need help
Page: Previous  1, 2
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeathTrap wrote:
Is the red light on,
or has it boiled over?

did it leave that big rusty water stain you may never gety off the cement

when is it too hot

as I recall it's a lot hotter with your head under the cover looking at it, than just driving around

has the paint left the tin?


Lol if the engine didn't cost more than the car, I could see where you are coming from. Thank you everybody for the hopeful advice, I am gonna test the differences in distributors and timing. I will check back in with my findings tomorrow morning. Any other advice or information leave it here! Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, I totally forgot and meant to bring this up. Over the winter I had my distributor off and accidentally turned the crank pulley a fuzz with it out. Did this mess up the position of my distributor gear and potentially giving me messy timing????
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I did mess with the original orientation is there a way to get it back without splitting the case?? Now I am kind of freaking out..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Is this what position it should be in before putting the distributor in?[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ashman40
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 13346
Location: North Florida
ashman40 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

58deadhead wrote:
Timing wise, I don't know if it is advancing or unadvancing with the current electronic distributor. It could be wired wrong to the coil and either burnt it up or didn't allow it to work properly.

I'm not clear if your distributor has a vacuum advance, or not? You mentioned timing it to 32BTDC at full advance. If it has a vacuum can, this is with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged, right? Where did the timing fall when you let the rpms drop back to idle?

Advance check:
While you watch the timing marks under the strobe timing light, raise the engine rpms from idle. As the rpms increase the timing marks should appear to rotate ccw under the light. This demonstrates that the distributor is advancing as engine rpms increase. With the vacuum hose disconnected, there should be a direct relationship between the engine rpms and the timing all the way up to the point where it stops advancing. If you hold the engine rpms at one spot (ie. 2000rpms) the timing should hold steady. It should not jump around if the rpms are steady.

Your electronic points module has two wires (usually red and black). Red is 12v+ and connects to the ignition coil #15 (+) terminal.
Black is trigger. It connects to the ignition coil #1 (-) terminal. This wire is how the electronic points cause the coil to fire. This is the same terminal that the green points/condenser wire used to connect to. Nothing else should be connected to this #1 coil terminal (except an aftermarket tach if you have one).
The electronic points modules ground through the body of the distributor.

If your current distributor is working and advancing as illustrated above leave it in. It is probably better than the 009 you used to have.


58deadhead wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Is this what position it should be in before putting the distributor in?

Not necessarily. You can see that the slot in the top of the distributor drive gear is offset. This means the cog at the bottom of the distributor can only be inserted one way.

The position illustrated is what the drive gear "should" look like when the engine is at TDC for #1 cylinder. The usefulness of this is when you install the distributor with the gear in this position the distributor rotor will be pointing to where the #1 plug wire should be installed. Add mentioned above #1 plug wire can be in different positions around the distributor cap depending on the model installed.

If you pulled the distributor and it wasn't oriented with the rotor pointing to #1 don't fret. It is not that difficult to fix. Also, I said it "should" look like that when the engine is at #1 TDC. That is if the engine was assembled correctly. If the drive gear was installed incorrectly there are 11 other positions it could be in (12 drive gear teeth).

Re-install the distributor just to hold the drive gear down. Don't worry about how it is oriented. Also don't worry too much about the drive gear getting boogered up. If you have a mechanical fuel pump installed it holds the drive gear down in place.

Find #1 TDC: Remove the right valve cover and watch the #1 intake rocker arm. Rotate the the crank pulley clockwise until you see the #1 intake valve open and then close. You are now at the beginning of the compression stroke. Keep rotating the crank pulley another 180deg until the TDC or timing notches) on the pulley line up with the case split. You are now at #1 TDC.
Remove the distributor and look at the top of the drive gear. Does it look like the pic? If it is not perfect but rotated less than 30deg off, you are good (one tooth offset on the drive gear is 30deg).
If your drive gear doesn't look like the pic, it is installed incorrectly. Since your engine was professionally built, I wouldn't expect this to be the case. But it is always good to check. Wink
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashman, how did you get so knowledgeable with these!? I have read a lot of your other posts and find myself in awe. I actually stole that picture from one of them. Laughing Thanks for taking the time to write all that out. I was able to soak it all in no problem. The current electronic distributor has a vacuum advance, the 009 doesn't. When I initially set the timing, I did it with the vacuum hose off. I don't think I doubled checked it with it back on. Thanks again for the clarification! I'll be sure to take my laptop out to the garage with me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
keiths 69
Samba Member


Joined: May 26, 2013
Posts: 109
Location: fresno ca
keiths 69 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mechanical advance in my dist stuck open and the engine was hot enough i could cook on it. The shop I took it to set it to 30 something degrees and called it good. I got it home and almost blew it up. I put a timing light on it and realized the timing did not move with the rpm. I got a new dist and problem solved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Max Welton
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 9881

Max Welton is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never,ever take anything back to that shop.

Max
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
OLD VW NUT
Samba Member


Joined: February 23, 2011
Posts: 2770
Location: High Desert of Washington 98823
OLD VW NUT is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since nobody else has posted this - I'll do it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You should have most of this tin - since you have a single port motor you won't have the dog house tin (#8 & #9) - but you may have the thermostat flaps (#11) installed but not connected to the thermostat itself. You may be the thermostat and the control rod that connects to the air flaps. If the flaps are in place but no thermostat and rod installed the spring MUST be in place to pull the flaps open.

Take a hard look at that illustration - do you have any of the parts shown as #11 installed? If the thermostat is a new style it may be bad - and the bad news is when they fail they do so in the closed position. Not good!

The other thing that could cause such extreme overheating is a fan that is wallowed out and does not spin at the same speed as the generator.
_________________
71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore

Other car - 2012 Nissan Leaf SL EV

Check out my 71 Ghia for sale ad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dual Port motor, I forgot to mention that. I have all those tins but maybe the oil cooler tin and duct. Unless, they are bolted into the fan shroud because I remember it having to line up to go on the block. No thermostat. I'm willing to put all my money on a bum distributor or improper timing. Aside from inspecting the oil-cooler, I have literally done everything else that was mentioned six or seven out of pure paranoia. I even bought three different temp gauges. The next question is if I took any life off my heads but I'll just have to cross that bridge when I get there. I still got the old engine to take out any building curves on and keep as a spare.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
johnnypan
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
johnnypan is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fresh engines can run hot for a few thousand miles..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
powerhaus
Samba Member


Joined: February 06, 2006
Posts: 8

powerhaus is offline 

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ben,
I had no idea you were having a heating issue, I know we spoke about the oil coming from the pulley a few days ago, but I haven't heard back from you. We are always here to help and because we built the long-block, it would probably be easier for us to diagnose your problem. I will be out of the office tomorrow morning and will return around 11:00am, we will get this heating issue resolved.
Please don't make any more changes, call me before you kill your engine Smile
Powerhaus
John
_________________
Thank you,
Powerhaus
John
[email protected]
1938 Del Amo Blvd.#B
Torrance, Ca.90501
Buis.Hours-Monday - Friday 9:00am - 6:00pm
(310)328-2746
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
ashman40
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 13346
Location: North Florida
ashman40 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

58deadhead wrote:
I have all those tins but maybe the oil cooler tin and duct. Unless, they are bolted into the fan shroud because I remember it having to line up to go on the block.

This is a pic of the doghouse fan shroud I borrowed from the gallery:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here you can see the additional tin pieces that direct the hot air from the oil cooler out through the front tin slot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This dumps the heat coming from the oil cooler OUTSIDE the engine compartment.
If you left the triangular and duct piece off the fan shroud the hot air coming off the oil cooler would recirculate into the engine compartment and back into the fan intake and heat up the engine. Having all the tin pieces is important. The function of the tin work is to keep hot air below the engine and keep only cool air above the tin work.

As a test, prop the decklid open with an old tennis ball cut with a slit. This will allow cool air to circulate as you drive, drawing hot air out of the engine compartment. If this makes a difference you could have a problem with hot air collecting in the engine compartment.


58deadhead wrote:
No thermostat.

These are the vanes that were installed at the bottom of the fan shroud.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Without the thermostat you need to make sure the vanes below the fan shroud are fully OPEN.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
58deadhead
Samba Member


Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 227
Location: FL
58deadhead is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I didn't want to panic or bother you. I haven't been driving it at all. When we spoke about the pulley, I was still in the process of getting the head temp gauge hooked up and didn't have any real rational to believe it was overheating at all. I spoke to someone with the same gauge, I may have located the problem..

When I first got the engine, I hooked up an oil gauge and wouldn't of been able to overheat this engine even new if I wanted to. She ran SUPER cool and I could confirm all that by touch and with a digital gauge. The dipstick and case would be luke-warm at its peak. My oil temps would barely hit 170-180 on the highway.

All of a sudden, the gauge completely stops working. I wasn't too concerned because it ran so cool but being overly cautious I wanted protection and was advised to get a CHT gauge because of their accuracy. This is when it all started..

As mentioned, I spoke with someone with the same gauge, he had the same problems. Not only was the sender wires crossed from the manufacture but odds are in my favor that the copper ring around the plug isn't being sealed completely. I guess even the slightest fraction will cause false high readings and lean bank. I'm headed out to the garage now, just wanted to update everyone taking the time to help me. My extreme caution is looking like it bit me Embarassed

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB