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Westfalia floors, do they all have the extra seat tracks?
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
You need to remove your flooring and cut it to accept the tracks. They bolt directly onto the metal of the floor. There should be temp black plastic bolts in the holes now. You likely can see the captive nuts with the plastic bolts sticking thru them if you lie on your back and look up at the floor where the tracks go.


Very helpful! Is the flooring plywood, or do I need to cut steel? I might know where an '84 or '85 wolfy is hiding so am going to see if I can score some tracks at least.

Thanks!
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flooring is plywood. But it sits somewhat under the cabinets or seat as well. Measure the width of the cut for the track from the donor.
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Flooring is plywood. But it sits somewhat under the cabinets or seat as well. Measure the width of the cut for the track from the donor.


Great info, thanks! This will add greatly to the daily usefulness of the van.
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the after market install by cutting the plywood. set the circ saw to the right depth. for daily use I run with a carpet over the whole area and remove to install seat. Very convenient for extra folks. i do wish I had the OEM setup that includes the track covers and the flooring edge with the track cutouts. Definitely worth doing.
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanis13 wrote:
I did the after market install by cutting the plywood. set the circ saw to the right depth. for daily use I run with a carpet over the whole area and remove to install seat. Very convenient for extra folks. i do wish I had the OEM setup that includes the track covers and the flooring edge with the track cutouts. Definitely worth doing.


Sounds like you cut in place? How do you measure for that? Any photos of your setup, and/or photos you found for what the track covers and flooring edge look like?
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tarandusVDub wrote:
vanis13 wrote:
I did the after market install by cutting the plywood. set the circ saw to the right depth. for daily use I run with a carpet over the whole area and remove to install seat. Very convenient for extra folks. i do wish I had the OEM setup that includes the track covers and the flooring edge with the track cutouts. Definitely worth doing.


Sounds like you cut in place? How do you measure for that? Any photos of your setup, and/or photos you found for what the track covers and flooring edge look like?


Careful if you cut in place. The wood floor thickness at the sliding door edge is not the same as the rest of the floor. (At least it was not on my '87).
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like it would be safer to pull the floor ~ to do that do you have to remove cabinets, rear bench etc.?
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tarandusVDub wrote:
It seems like it would be safer to pull the floor ~ to do that do you have to remove cabinets, rear bench etc.?


I believe that I pulled the rear bench base, not sure about the cabinets. I first did this a long time ago and I've had the interior out since then so my memory of what exactly I did for this is not reliable. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can slightly lift the edge of the wood floor at the slider door and make the cuts that way so you don't hit the metal floor with the saw. Slip a spacer strip of wood in there to keep it lifted while you cut. If all you want is a single seat then you can shorten the tracks to just the size you need and not cut the floor all the way to the kitchen. That is what I would do.

You can even install the tracks on top of the entire floor. You can find the threaded holes under the van and drill a small hole up through the floor at each threaded hole. Then use a hole saw from above to expose the plastic plug. Then remove the plugs and bolt the tracks down on top of the floor, with metal spacer washers so the bolts tighten metal on metal. This way could work fine if the seat was going to stay in but with the seat removed the tracks would then stick up so either remove them too when the seat is out or cut the floor to allow the tracks to go down between the metal ribs. Watch the hole saw cutting if you have carpet as the threads may want to catch and get twisted up.

Mark

tarandusVDub wrote:
It seems like it would be safer to pull the floor ~ to do that do you have to remove cabinets, rear bench etc.?
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So would you only do one seat so you don't have to cut all the way to the cabinet, or are there other reasons you would only go with one? I think I found someone with two seats available so would probably go that route...
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you plan 2 person seating then you need tracks for that length.

The track pair from a Westy are not exactly the same lengths as for a passenger van. I forget the details about the difference.

I have various tracks laying around including Westy ones so maybe I will take a look sometime.

Mark

tarandusVDub wrote:
So would you only do one seat so you don't have to cut all the way to the cabinet, or are there other reasons you would only go with one? I think I found someone with two seats available so would probably go that route...


Last edited by crazyvwvanman on Tue May 13, 2014 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tarandusVDub wrote:
So would you only do one seat so you don't have to cut all the way to the cabinet, or are there other reasons you would only go with one? I think I found someone with two seats available so would probably go that route...


I set up mine so I can have no seat:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With tracks covered:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


One seat:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Or the two seater:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you are going to do the tracks might as well do them whole hog the first time... Very Happy
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tarandusVDub
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="crazyvwvanman"]If you plan 2 person seating then you need tracks for that length.

The track pair from a Westy are not exactly the same lengths as for a passenger van. I forget the details about the difference. I imagine the passenger ones may be a little longer to reach all the way to the side wall where the Westy has kitchen and doesn't need them quite as long.

I have various tracks laying around including Westy ones so maybe I will take a look sometime.

Mark

That would be great. I'll have to see if the donor I'm talking to has a westy or a tin top.

Dobryan - what a great setup! Its so nice to have the later seats with the head rests. Nice.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did have to cut the tracks shorter to fit the Westy. Otherwise they would have extended under the cabinets. Not a big deal at all. Just line them up on the bolt holes first so you know which end to cut.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My floor has no railings. It is all grey and was perfect and unblemished until I put a jump seat in. I'd LOVE one more seat, like this, so I can camp w/ a friend and her two kids in one vehicle, but really, we'd never have space for all that stuff! LOL

tam
dobryan wrote:

One seat:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you are going to do the tracks might as well do them whole hog the first time... Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, after a little research it seems the tracks came in 3 different lengths. The longest are for 3 person middle seats, possibly rare and would have to be cut for a Westy with kitchen.

3 person seat = 2 longest tracks
2 person in Westy = 2 medium tracks
2 person in hardtop = 1 medium, 1 short

Mark

tarandusVDub wrote:
crazyvwvanman wrote:
If you plan 2 person seating then you need tracks for that length.

The track pair from a Westy are not exactly the same lengths as for a passenger van. I forget the details about the difference.

I have various tracks laying around including Westy ones so maybe I will take a look sometime.

Mark


That would be great. I'll have to see if the donor I'm talking to has a westy or a tin top.

Dobryan - what a great setup! Its so nice to have the later seats with the head rests. Nice.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Friends,

First, please pardon any screw-ups. -First time poster.

Next, as to Lucas’ GW article link mentioned previously, he is mostly-almost right. But, many 1987-92 Canadian (and Euro) Westys that are in the US came with OE rails. So you’re all set if you have one of those. (And, you’ll also have heated front seats.)

Now then, my challenge arose after we had our second kid. You see, my mother in law had to sit on the floor every time she visited. Razz So after a couple of those episodes, I had to come up with a solution that did not involve selling Roxanne (like my wife would have preferred). Shocked And since Roxanne is pretty sweet, the MOD had to be done right.

The objective was something like this stock pic of an ‘85 Westy with OE rails:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


But, with the following in mind:

• Stock floor had to come out in one piece for storage

• MOD had to be OE while matching the look and feel of Roxanne’s OE interior

• Fit and finish to original specifications

• Seating options for 4, 5, or 6

• Rugged, durable floor covering

• Minimal tinkering with the stove/sink and the water tank cabinets

So, on a really friggin' cold and windy winter day and with [awesome!] help from fellow thesamba member idlewildbrooklyn, we got to work:

Step 1: Remove the rear bench seat, the metal cover to the computer, and the plywood rear heater blower cover.

Step 2: Remove the screws that attach the floor to the sub-floor, unscrew the long metal threshold piece (keep these with the original floor). Remove the black rubber threshold cover and set aside for reinstallation.

Step 3: Remove the bolts that attach the stove/sink and the water tank cabinets to the inside of the van and to one other, carefully noting how everything fits for proper reinstall. (No need to remove the external hook-ups because, for this job, there was enough slack in those connections.)

Step 4: Carefully raise and shim the cabinets. We did it with old-skool wedge-shaped door stoppers.

Step 5: Carefully lift up the floor. You’ll hear the glue detaching from the underneath. -No worries there. Now work the floor out from under the cabinets. It only extends 1-2 inches. Lift, angle, lift, angle, tilt, and remove.

Now is a good time to wipe the floor clean. Some of you may even want to get out the shop vac. Wink

Here is my result. (Note the factory glue and the black rubber covers that indicate where the threaded rail holes are.)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note that we also removed the fridge and cabinet doors and the electricals. –In retrospect, not really necessary.

Sidebar - You’re probably wondering where I got the rails. Duh: thesamba. But, since the objective was a stock look, I found an ‘86 Westy that was being parted out, and I bought the whole set-up: plywood, top and bottom rail covers, metal spacer bars (important), nuts, bolts, and brackets, the three metal threshold pieces, and rails for about $300 with shipping from SC to NYC. Expensive I know, and the seller had me by the balz, but it was and easy and complete plug-n-play solution. Of course, the whole thing was beige/brown. So before the install, I carefully sanded and spray-painted the rail covers, housing and rubber beading. I also removed the original vinyl flooring with a heat gun and sealed the bottom and sides with some quality sealer. And finally, I liquid-nailed this flooring to the plywood surface for a nice, rugged look:

http://www.rubbercal.com/X_Derm.html

Important: you’ll need the rails that are the same (short) length. The pair where one is longer is not OE to the camper, and you would have to cut the long one to make it fit… -possibly.

Now, on to the rail install.

Step 6: Unscrew the black rubber covers (and keep them with your original floor). Don’t bother removing the glue.

Step 7: Configuration from front to rear: wide plywood piece with rubber beading facing the front, then first rail set-up, then narrow plywood piece, then second rail set-up, then remaining medium-width plywood piece.

Step 7a (rail set-up configuration): place the bottom rail housing over the holes, then the spacers, then the rails, and then the brackets. And then bolt the set-up to the floor. Tightly. –And why the OE spacer bar under the rails? Because it raises the rails slightly to allow the seats to slide in easily. Without them, sliding the seats in will be a pain in the neck.
Option: to reduce sound and vibrations, I added some Fat-Mat:

Step 8: Replace the black rubber threshold cover and screw in the three new metal threshold pieces that replace the long one. (You’ll need to carefully drill some new pilot holes, and cover the old holes with some grease or silicone to avoid oxidation)

Option: I also put down some Fat Mat.

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4418&category_id=&category_parent_id=

Here is my result:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Stay tuned for step by step seating and floor covering options, and feel free to ask questions. -I’ll be around.


Last edited by 78busboy on Tue May 13, 2014 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And coincidentally, here is a 1991 Euro-spec Westy camper in MA with OE rails:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1637875

Not cheap.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
tarandusVDub wrote:
So would you only do one seat so you don't have to cut all the way to the cabinet, or are there other reasons you would only go with one? I think I found someone with two seats available so would probably go that route...


I set up mine so I can have no seat:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With tracks covered:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


One seat:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Or the two seater:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you are going to do the tracks might as well do them whole hog the first time... Very Happy


This is great how you did this! Is that not too difficult to slide the wood in and out?

I have an 85 with the tracks and awhile back put in wood flooring, which I really like. Then I got the single forward facing jumpseat, but I couldn't decide how to keep the wood flooring in there as well. I removed the wood, and created a patchwork of carpet but I never liked it. So I sold the jumpseat base and converted the seat to a rear facing jumpseat (still needs to be installed Embarassed ) so I can keep the wood flooring in all the time.

What flooring options did VW offer with vans equipped with a single forward facing jumpseat?
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jkidd152"]
dobryan wrote:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With tracks covered:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




This is great how you did this! Is that not too difficult to slide the wood in and out?


Install the tracks as per the original stock setup. The top of the track will be just below the top of the stock gray floor. This allows you to put the "pergo" flooring in three pieces. The front and rear piece get screwed in to the floor so they don't move and also leave a 1/2" protruding portion on the gray flooring on the edge to serve as a lip for the center piece. The center piece that covers the tracks just is placed down between the front and rear piece and is supported on the edges and middle by the gray floor. Easy peasy.... Very Happy
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Last edited by dobryan on Tue May 13, 2014 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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