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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:57 pm Post subject: Okay, what's the fix here. Att: T4 guys |
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The good
The bad
The #3 cylinder intake doesn't line up well. What am I doing wrong here? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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VDubTech Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002 Posts: 9142 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried swapping the manifolds? is the 3/4 manifold tight to the head in that pic? Sometimes you have to wiggle em a little to get everything to line up just right. I put the tubes into the boots first and then line it up with the head. _________________ First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
borninabus wrote: |
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
notchboy wrote: |
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2205 Location: seattle
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:14 pm Post subject: Okay,what's the fix here. Att: T4 guys |
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Do you have the phenolic blocks between the heads & intake tubes/injector
holders? Is the fuel pressure tap (8mm bolt) on the Cyl3/4 side where it is
supposed to be? That's all I have. |
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VDubTech Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002 Posts: 9142 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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First things first, check and make sure the tube is fully in the boot. It looks like it may be catching the edge on the bottom. Second, it actually doesn't look all that out of alignment. It looks to me like you just need to push the boot back onto the manifold and reposition it on the runner. A little lubricant when installing the runners to the boots isn't the worst thing in the world either. _________________ First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
borninabus wrote: |
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
notchboy wrote: |
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the responses.
A little lubricant when installing the runners to the boots isn't the worst thing in the world either.
I used silicone grease on the boots. I guess I could try and swap sides but I already sorta did that and they looked the same to me. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51148 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think the first thing I'd do is reach in there and yank that #3 pipe backward, maybe it got tweaked when dumped into a pile of cores or getting picked up with a crane the wrong way?, I'd also look over the plenum mount to see how bent it is. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I swapped sides and then took these pics.
Same issue with #3
Block spacers are installed
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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That's weird, bordering on the Twilight Zone. You didn't tell us if it came off this engine...how was it when you took it all apart for the refresh? Or did this manifold or intake runners come from something else?
It looks to me to be way too far out of alignment to be something needing a little tweaking/lube/fondling. It really looks totally wrong to me. Did these parts get dropped and or stepped on?
Confirm that these are all the parts that came off this engine. Or is this a mix of parts to make one up? |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2205 Location: seattle
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: Okay,what's the fix here. Att: T4 guys |
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Thanks for the images...it is time to tweak the mounting tang(s)on the
plenum, I do believe the intake runners are symmetrical. Now that's all I have. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Tweaking the plenum is interesting. To answer the above question. This project is transferring a 1976 bus from single progressive back to original FI for the purpose of being smog legal. I've been accumulating all the parts for this and these intake runners did not come off this engine originally. The #1/#2 side of the plenum seems to line up well so tweaking the plenum doesn't really sound like the answer. i suppose I could split the difference.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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If I remember right they are not concentric. Try putting the 3/4 side on the 1/2 side and see if it lines up. You may have two 1/2 sides?
No part numbers on the runners? |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5780 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wow - is that an ocean view out there in front of the bus? A carport with a view like that... whew... and sooo clean. And that clean bus... It's like you shouldn't even be working in there! We have nice views here in northern New Mexico, but it is long way to any water!
I agree with timvw7476: The intake runners seem to be symmetrical, as switching sides did nothing to alleviate the misalignment. It has to be the plenum... that one (#3?) sleeve is misaligned. Does it look at all like it got bent in towards the #4 sleeve? See if you can find a pipe of suitable diameter (OD of the pipe just a bit less than the ID of the sleeve, and insert it in the sleeve and gently realign it. Maybe?
I'm also interested in your success, since I may do this to a bus I now have. Even with a 2.0-L GE engine in it, the poor thing is anemic on a single carb. _________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
Last edited by jtauxe on Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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curtis4085 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 4806 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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It seen a few months since I did a top end refresh and if my memory is correct isn't there markings on the intakes? I was think there were two different sides. I could be totally wrong;) _________________ Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com |
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germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7093 Location: toronto
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Tcash wrote: |
You may have two 1/2 sides? |
i think so. _________________ SL |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Tcash wrote: |
If I remember right they are not concentric. Try putting the 3/4 side on the 1/2 side and see if it lines up. You may have two 1/2 sides?
No part numbers on the runners? |
Didn't see you switched sides! But the problem did not move. 1/2 side still lines up. So if the runners where concentric the problem would have moved to the other side, correct? Think about it. |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Tcash wrote: |
If I remember right they are not concentric. Try putting the 3/4 side on the 1/2 side and see if it lines up. You may have two 1/2 sides?
No part numbers on the runners? |
Didn't see you switched sides! But the problem did not move. 1/2 side still lines up. So if the runners where concentric the problem would have moved to the other side, correct? Think about it. |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5780 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Tcash wrote: |
Tcash wrote: |
If I remember right they are not concentric. Try putting the 3/4 side on the 1/2 side and see if it lines up. You may have two 1/2 sides?
No part numbers on the runners? |
Didn't see you switched sides! But the problem did not move. 1/2 side still lines up. So if the runners where concentric the problem would have moved to the other side, correct? Think about it. |
What do you mean by "concentric"?
I think Scott may be on to something. If the 1/2 runners are different from the 3/4 runners, and if we see that what aeromech has here is two identical sets of runners, then that would explain what we are seeing. Now I want to see the top of a Type 4 engine to compare the runners.
OK, so here's a pic of a pair of runners from the classifieds, and they do look different:
_________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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What do you mean by "concentric"?
That they are both the same.
Here is a set out of the classifieds.
Note how the ends of the runners are different. The circled area may be a cast number? |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2205 Location: seattle
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: Okay,what's the fix here. Att: T4 guys |
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This bus has two right feet...so there's a bus out there somewhere... with two
left feet |
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germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7093 Location: toronto
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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jtauxe wrote: |
If the 1/2 runners are different from the 3/4 runners ... |
they are different and will not fit side to side. the OP has two sets of the same side runner i am pretty sure. can't be certain of course but that's how it appears to me. _________________ SL |
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