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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:57 pm Post subject: Shift behavior question |
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Hey all-
Quick question- my recollection is that getting into reverse on the van should require pushing down and left on the shifter, right? That is the how I remember my old 87 tintop working (but my memory is highly suspect!). My '86 had the shifter ears completely worn out, so today I replaced them with the T3 kit. Shifting behavior hasn't really changed at all, and I am almost wondering if the stick is somehow sitting too low, such that the shifter ears aren't doing their job. Any input would be greatly appreciated! I can actually shift fine as I am totally used to having a hosed system, but nobody else can drive the van and I'd like for my wife to be able to do so.
Thanks!
Ryan _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Every part of the linkage has the potential to add slop. Check it:
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_14_9/vanagon-shifter.html
Basically, start at one end and work your way to the other end. Even a small
misalignment can make a big difference at the shifter. Check out Bentley 34.4.
Search on this - there's a gold mine here on the site.
Good luck!
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply, Dave. I have pretty much been through the whole system from end to end at this point, other than tweaking the position of the splines. Replaced the ball linkage at the tranny, did the shifter base repair, and now the ears. So before digging further, I'm back to my main question- should I have to push down to get to reverse? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, which mean my shifter is pretty wacky still. Anyone? _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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a2d2 Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2013 Posts: 366 Location: EastVanagon, BC
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:03 am Post subject: |
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ledogboy wrote: |
should I have to push down to get to reverse? |
Not sure if it changed over the various model years but I will answer this question with a "yes" for my '81... _________________ 1981 Vanagon, Aircooled 2.0 AFC
1978 Baywindow Bus (R.I.P.) |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
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ledogboy wrote: |
Thanks for the reply, Dave. I have pretty much been through the whole system from end to end at this point, other than tweaking the position of the splines. Replaced the ball linkage at the tranny, did the shifter base repair, and now the ears. So before digging further, I'm back to my main question- should I have to push down to get to reverse? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, which mean my shifter is pretty wacky still. Anyone? |
I have redone my linkage and after adjusting the linkage at the middle union per Bentley, it does not need to be pressed down much.. if at all.. to shift into R.
That's over the span of two different transmission, too
*Sometimes*, it needs a little downward pressure and a wiggle to prevent a slight grinding.. but its very rare.. perhaps only when I am rushing a shift and the vehicle is not at a complete stop?
I am using a short shift kit, too.. and have always wondered if that combined with an old weak spring was the reason behind it.
It has caused no problems for me.. and it seems easier for others to drive. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the guidance, gents. Tomorrow I'll have some more time to poke around the shifter- I'm curious to peek into the shift box and see how the new ears follow the guides. _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Disregard the red arrow. The reverse lockout is built into the shift box so to speak. The "plastic" tangs keep the shifts quiet and also prevent you from accidentally catching reverse when you want first. You need to depress the shift lever so that the tang can get underneath the lip of the shift box bracket. Have someone move the shifter around while you watch from below. It is possible the shift lever has "sunk" for a couple reasons. It is spring loaded up by the shifter base bushing. That bushing wears and possibly the set screw that holds the spring tension has slipped up. It would be possible to add washers between the shift ball socket and the floor plate to shim it up. On a vehicle this old you could have a mix match of parts, but it should be solvable.
_________________ ☮️ |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW - Photo above shows the shift rod in the 3/4 neutral position.
You can see the reverse lockout on the right side (of the van, AND the photo)... _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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That was the "forget the red arrow" comment, but yes you are correct. _________________ ☮️ |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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OP: Yes - pushing down for the reverse lockout is normal operation.
What's the trouble that "nobody else can drive the van"...??? _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
OP: Yes - pushing down for the reverse lockout is normal operation.
What's the trouble that "nobody else can drive the van"...??? |
You just have to hunt for gears a bit as the guides are not effective at the moment. I'm used to it (my old Tintop was even worse at one point), but it's not easy for someone who isn't familiar with the van to drive (ie: my wife). Thanks for all the help! _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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ledogboy wrote: |
I have pretty much been through the whole system from end to end at this point, other than tweaking the position of the splines... |
Looks like you're left with one option then. SPLINE TIME!
Get a buddy and get on this, and keep us posted. I'll be right behind you... _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 578 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
Looks like you're left with one option then. SPLINE TIME!
Get a buddy and get on this, and keep us posted. I'll be right behind you.. |
Yup! It was spline time indeed. After watching how the shifter was working from underneath the van, it was obvious that the stick was indeed drooping, as rsxsr had posited. When I redid the shifter base, I had marked the position of the spring and put it back in that same position. Obviously, that had slid over the years- once I repositioned it so that it put more upward pressure on the stick, the guides started doing their job.
The trouble then became that I could not get into 1st or 2nd gear. I loosened the clamp where the splines are behind the gas tank, but nothing would budge at first. It took a couple of vice grips to force the parts to rotate. I made a shim as prescribed by Bentley, but I couldn't make that method work- I may have been putting the shim in wrong place though- Bentley doesn't always make sense to me. In any case, I tweaked a touch in one direction (much worse!) and then tweaked about the same amount in the other direction- victory!
The van now shifts as though it had just left the factory. The ears glide along the guides perfectly and there is zero guesswork involved in getting into any gear. Reverse requires pushing down and left on the stick, as it should.
Many thanks for the help here, and in the many other threads that I read on shifter repair. I am extremely pleased that I was able to fix this- the van is even more of a pleasure to drive now!
Cheers,
Ryan _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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A result. Good to hear. _________________ ☮️ |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Good work - Congrats!
Sounds like I need to get on this... _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Did my "spline work" this morning:
No previous problems, but rather suddenly the past few days (week or less) first had become
hard to find; managed by pushing down just a bit & "riding" the reverse lockout to get to first.
(Think like a skateboarder riding on a rail...)
Funny thing - two days ago was rather normal again (300 mile road trip) but yesterday coming
home was the WORST it had ever been. Hmmm... isn't it funny when catastrophic failure
comes and goes...??? Anyway - time for drastic action...
My morning in a nutshell:
- got under there and rotated front rod ONE spline counterclockwise...
- checked shifting in the van - 1st is GOOD! ...but now 2nd is locked out...
- on a whim, checked the lever connection at tranny and found it loose...
- snugged it up, with the same result (1st good/2nd locked out)...
- So, I moved the shift rod back to the original position and now it's good as ever...
I had done my clutch about 18 months ago - I guess it takes that long to make a good job go bad...
Another perfect day...
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
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Vanagator Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2009 Posts: 230 Location: Cool lush mountains in Mexico
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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The 86 Vanagator says YES push down, go left then up for reverse.
Also, know that neutral is in between 3rd and 4th.
Any slight (I mean slight) adjustment to the shift rods where they meet near the fuel pump will have a difference in the shifting. (Mark then before messing with them) |
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