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trying to get her started - no gas to fuel pump
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RocketBox
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: trying to get her started - no gas to fuel pump Reply with quote

So I am finally at the point where I am trying to get the engine that I've rebuilt to fire up. I just installed a new fuel pump and it turn on as it should - but no fuel ever goes from the tank to the pump. So far I have put about 3 gallons into the tank... maybe slightly less. If I pull the line from the tank to the pump at the tank connect I would expect to have some fuelgushing out.... but theres none. Should I keep pouring in fuel till I get to a higher level? Is there something in the tank that needs to be looked at?
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dustibus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea put more gas in it, had this happen to me yesterday(but the van was up on ramps) I put 2.5 gallons in=nothing...put in another 4 and some started to come out. Make sure you got the pump wired up right and its not pumping back into the tank Shocked
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RocketBox
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So on the fuel pump there is a wide connector and a more narrow one. I have the narrow connector to ground and the wider connection to positive. Does that sound correct?
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RocketBox
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

should i keep filling the tank to the point where if i remove the fuel line from the tank, the gas will come out?

is the system gravity fed or is there something in the tank that sucks the gas up and feeds it down to the ougoing line?
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80 Vanagon Camper ASI Riveria - subaru 2.2 conversion project. 1993 Subary legacy donor car + Riveria = AWESOME!
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1vw4x4
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gravity will not pull the fuel out of the tank. (if the tank is factory).
You might want to force air from your blow gun into the tank filler neck. This
will get fuel to come out, if everything else is correct.

RocketBox wrote:
should i keep filling the tank to the point where if i remove the fuel line from the tank, the gas will come out?

is the system gravity fed or is there something in the tank that sucks the gas up and feeds it down to the ougoing line?
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RocketBox
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - so I pumped some air into the tank... got some gas to come out - but just a trickle. Is there a way I can check to see which terminal should be positive and which should be negative on the ford fuel pump? Also - how heavy should the flow of gas be coming out of the tank? It sounds like the fuel pump tour on when the key is turned for maybe 5 seconds then turns off... is that normal?
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocketBox wrote:
Ok - so I pumped some air into the tank... got some gas to come out - but just a trickle. Is there a way I can check to see which terminal should be positive and which should be negative on the ford fuel pump? Also - how heavy should the flow of gas be coming out of the tank? It sounds like the fuel pump tour on when the key is turned for maybe 5 seconds then turns off... is that normal?


Yes, that is normal for the pump to operate for a few seconds and shut off.
just out of curiosity did you change the fuel filter? It sounds now like debris might be blocking the fuel pipe. If you disconnect the line at the tank does fuel pour out freely(watch your eyes.)
If so just keep on pumping fuel. on the Fuel relay I believe terminal 87 on the bottom side is the power lead to the pump. You can jump from the current relay to the fuel pump relay to keep the pump "pumping" to get the fuel in the piping to bleed the lines.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the tank is vented so you won't get a lot of pressure inside unless you have a massive volume air pump.

If you suspect the pump is wired wrong it may be worth the pain in the clock to add some fuel line to the tank end of your fuel line such that you can drop it into a gallon gas can or similar. Then have a friend turn the key on. The pump will cycle for a few seconds then shut off correctly. You may have to do this several cycles to get fuel from the gallon gas can through though if you see the level dropping in your gallon can then safe assumption the pump is properly wired. Be very careful as you are dealing with electricity and fuel. Have a serious shop fire extinguisher handy and a plan.

DougM
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RocketBox
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so when i disconnect the fuel line from the tank (that leads to the pump) the flow seems restricted... just a trickle of gas comes out. That leads me to think that i probably need to drop the tank and clean something out - is there a filter or something in the tank that would be clogged up or blocking the flow? Is there a way to clear the blockage out without dropping the tank? could i blast some air in there through the tank connection... just to clear the clog out enought to try and fire the van up?

Doug - thanks for the advice on testing the pump. i'll try that and verify that it's wired the correct way.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a test in the manual for fuel quantity delivery. Why not do the test and see if there is enough gas being pumped per the test? Then you can decide if pulling the tank is called for.

Mark

RocketBox wrote:
so when i disconnect the fuel line from the tank (that leads to the pump) the flow seems restricted... just a trickle of gas comes out. That leads me to think that i probably need to drop the tank and clean something out - is there a filter or something in the tank that would be clogged up or blocking the flow? Is there a way to clear the blockage out without dropping the tank? could i blast some air in there through the tank connection... just to clear the clog out enought to try and fire the van up?

Doug - thanks for the advice on testing the pump. i'll try that and verify that it's wired the correct way.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess, the small spade connector is power. The larger is ground. Vanagon fuel tanks fail internally. It is not common but it does happen. They are not really serviceable, but luckily aftermarket ones are. You need to get one that matches your filler neck. Two sizes exist.
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1vw4x4
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get yourself a good blow gun. The type with the rubber pointed tip.
Shoot compressed air directly into the outlet. This has saved me
and customers countless times dropping fuel tanks and replacement cost.
You may have to do this several time because the clog may be back
in a few hundred miles. After the dirt gets thru the system to the fillter the tank will be fine.

As a side note, dirt gets into the tanks thru the vents grommets, rust holes, or the vapor recovery tank grommets. If so, you should fix this also.




RocketBox wrote:
so when i disconnect the fuel line from the tank (that leads to the pump) the flow seems restricted... just a trickle of gas comes out. That leads me to think that i probably need to drop the tank and clean something out - is there a filter or something in the tank that would be clogged up or blocking the flow? Is there a way to clear the blockage out without dropping the tank? could i blast some air in there through the tank connection... just to clear the clog out enought to try and fire the van up?

Doug - thanks for the advice on testing the pump. i'll try that and verify that it's wired the correct way.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with 1vw4x4 - give a shot of air into the fuel line to see if flow improves, which would indicate an issue with something clogging the fuel tank pickup. A bit of a coincidence with you getting it started and all, but I've seen things happen at the same time that confound normal trouble shooting, and when solved seem so improbable you don't know whether to laugh or cry.

DougM
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

while i'm now curious if giving a blast of air would help my declog my tank, i don't think this is your problem. you have a slow trickle of fuel from the tank - that is normal, as confirmed by several people above and also my own experience.

instead, i would start looking at or after the pump. if you have a trickle, and you have checked the hose between the tank and the pump, then it has got to be pump or after. you could check the pump by putting the output hose into a jar and turning the ignition on (not cranking). it should squirt a bit out.

i don't know if it possible for the vanagon fuel pump to get airlocked, but i guess it could be. i know there is a bleeder for the fuel system on the first tee in the engine. (there may be a tiny copper washer in your engine gasket set to replace that bleeder's washer if you can't stop it leaking after loosening it).

also, are you sure you've got the fuel lines hooked up the right way: from the tank (passenger side line) it goes straight to the injectors via the tee, return to the tank goes from the pressure regulator (small metal thing) on the drivers side line.
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Waldemar Sikorski
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know when vw introduced the plastic internal fuel line from the outlet to the fuel filter but I blew mine off when used a compressor to unclog that line. Putting it back was a bitch.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waldemar - much appreciated. I think I'll leave that line alone.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - so I got the fuel pump going the correct direction and now have fuel back to the rails. Spark is good but no start yet. Im wondering if my timing is off at the distributor. Is there a way to check this? It was a little unclear in the Bentley manual how to ensure the timing at the dizzy.... if someone has some pics or something that would be awesome.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i went back to the bentley's in an attempt to reset the timing or check it on the dizzy. I found the TDC markings on the main pulley and it lined up with cylinder 1 TDC (checking with a screwdriver in the plug hole). i think i got it about where the bentley's states, but the diagram really sucks in that one... does anyone have a picture of the Distributor gear position when the engine is at TDC? I'd like to know that i have it set right before i move on...

i know fuel is getting to the rails. i know i am getting spark.
i don't know if the injectors are squirting and i don't know if the timing is correct. Can i take the injectors with the fuel rail attached out of the manifold and see if they are squirting?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RocketBox wrote:
i went back to the bentley's in an attempt to reset the timing or check it on the dizzy. I found the TDC markings on the main pulley and it lined up with cylinder 1 TDC (checking with a screwdriver in the plug hole). i think i got it about where the bentley's states, but the diagram really sucks in that one... does anyone have a picture of the Distributor gear position when the engine is at TDC? I'd like to know that i have it set right before i move on...

i know fuel is getting to the rails. i know i am getting spark.
i don't know if the injectors are squirting and i don't know if the timing is correct. Can i take the injectors with the fuel rail attached out of the manifold and see if they are squirting?


The rotor should point to the engine seam/crank pulley/lifting loop - approx. the 5-o'clock position if standing over it when at #1 TDC.
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RocketBox
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH Shocked
thats not what it looked like at all in the bentley's. i think my rotor was pointing around 7 o clock at TDC. i'll recheck this evening and see where its pointing at to be sure though. Thanks for the reply
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