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Engine Rebuild Problems
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Engine Rebuild Problems Reply with quote

I recently rebuilt the engine for my 1967 type 1. The rebuild all started because of bad rings. So I decided that while I had everything apart I would do the rebuild with some upgrades.

1. I had the case line bored by a local aircooled VW parts store.
2. I purchased a new 69mm counterweighted crank
3. I purchased new 90.5mm pistons and cylinders. The engine was bored by the same shop that did the line boring.
4. I had the flywheel, pistons, rods, and crank balanced by a local machine shop.
5. The engine now has a engle 110 camshaft, 1.25:1 rockers.
6. I have installed a Petronix ignitor II electronic ignition along with their flame thrower coil.
7. The cylinder heads are empi 042.
8. I also installed a electronic fuel pump that is controlled by a revolution electronics relay.
9. Carbs are empi dual 40s.

So I assembled the engine. During the whole process I plasti-gauged the bearings. Checked the crank end play. All of this is correct.

The timing and valve adjustment is all correct. The fuel pump and relay work properly. I am getting spark.

So I attempted to start the car, but it only would crank. I put some gas in the carbs and then rechecked the timing of the distributor. It was a little off. After a few tries the car started and ran for about 5 seconds on three occasions. it seemed as though I wasn't getting fuel yet.

The next time I tried to crank the engine the battery voltage drop down to 9. I tested the battery and found that it was no good. I replaced it. I tried to crank the engine.... it was super slow. I checked battery volts and it was only at 11.7. I charged the battery.

The vehicle now cranks a little faster, but not as fast as it should. I removed the spark plug wires and the coil wire and it did not change the cranking speed at all. Now the car doesn't seem like it wants to start at all. I tried to crank it twice and then all of the sudden I had oil dripping pretty heavily out of some of the pushrod tubes.

Where should I go from here?
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whaa?

Does your crankcase have somewhere to vent to? Like, is it unplugged? I can't see how else it'd start leaking so bad.

Did you check for coil bind?
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you'll know if you have fuel if you carbs pump fuel from their squirters.

Are you able to turn the pulley by hand two full turns with the plugs out?

Do your heads have dual springs? I wonder if your valve spring coils are fully compressed.
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed a cb performance breather box. I have lines coming from the valve covers and fuel pump block off.

I can turn the crank pulley with a wrench.

Yes the heads have dual valve springs. I can watch the valves open and close.
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morymob
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did u crank each valve fully open & check 4 coil bind? Were cyls/ put in dry , not oiled? How about piston ring gap, checked in all cyls?
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple questions. One, did it spin over easy by hand when assembling it? Did you turn it over after each step? What did you set the end play to? That set up shouldn't have coil bind but I've never had my hand of a set of those EMPI china heads so I can't tell you for sure. Just noticed, you absolutely do not need dual springs. The inner springs could be binding. I ran a 2276 with a W120, 1.25's and dual 44 IDF's with single heavy duty springs. You should also try and take out the electronic ignition and install points, just to see if it will fire. There are a lot of things to check so just start making a list and checking them off one by one.
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't write the specs down, but the ring clearances as well as piston to bore clearances were checked. Probably triple checked to be honest.

Cylinders and all other parts were coated with Lucas assembly lube or oil.

I will have to recheck all of the valve springs.
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esde
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen an old tired starter finally quit when asked to turn a new engine with good compression. Not that it solves all of your issues but part of it might be as simple as a starter that's failing.
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RHough
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
... You should also try and take out the electronic ignition and install points, just to see if it will fire. There are a lot of things to check so just start making a list and checking them off one by one.


Verify that you have spark. I've seen Petronix ign fail if the ign is on and the engine not running.

If you have just cranked it long enough to get oil to the heads and it is leaking, look at push rod tubes.

Pull the plugs and verify compression and check cranking speed.

Check firing order and fixed advance again. The number of times those basics have bit people is countless.

If you have Fuel, Air, and Spark in about the right places at the about the right time it will start. Back to basics.
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess tonight is checklist time. I'm going to check for coil bind. I did have spark but I am going to check for it again tonight.

Thanks for the suggestions.... I will keep you all posted.
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Removed dual valve springs. Went to single.
2. Checked push rods... good
3. Set valve clearances.
4. Checked springs.
5. Reset timing with a timing light.
6. Checked voltage at starter... good
7. Checked voltage drop of negative cable... good

I have my battery on a charger. Oil leak seemed to be coming from the pushrod tubes.
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooo,did it start? The tube leak fix is obvious.
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the crazy thing..... NO!
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you have spark at the coil wire?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: not starting Reply with quote

Not to be a smart ass here, but have you check to make sure its not 180 degrees out of time? I rebuilt a engine back when I was learning how too and could not get it to run, alot of the same things your decribing, turned to distruber 180 and WHAM fired right up. When I say turned the distruber, do not pull it out and turn it just start the number three wire where the number one would be and go.
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NUG637
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have all fallen for that trick…. did the same thing with one of my first engines…. had me stumped…. Embarassed Laughing
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NUG637
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have all fallen for that trick…. did the same thing with one of my first engines…. had me stumped…. Embarassed Laughing
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you bolt the cam on the gear in the right position on the cam? I once bought Bugpack straight cuts with the dot 180 degrees off. When you spin the engine clockwise, does lash become loose in the 1-4-3-2 order? If not, you cam could be in the wrong position.

If you have another coil, eliminate that possibility and hook it up.
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rickb67
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timing is all correct. Rotor is pointing at cylinder number 1 and it is definitely at tdc of the compression stroke.

I double checked it even after it started a few times. So it has fired up... but won't stay running for longer than 10 seconds.

I can see fuel so I know I have that.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you got a spare pair of points you can throw in? I think the oil leak is a red herring - you probably didn't stretch the pushrod tubes enough, or straight enough. The engine just waited until you had pumped enough oil up into the heads.

What do you mean by you can see fuel? Do you mean from the accelerator pumps? It is possible it is starting on the fuel from the accelerator pumps, but is not feeding through the idle jets - what was done with the carbs when you rebuilt? Sometimes there is crud hiding in the system and the idle jets are a good place to stop, especially in Kads.
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