Author |
Message |
CogHill Autowerks Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Southern Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: Vintage speed? |
|
|
i know this forum mostly pertains to motors, but that is just one thing, what about brakes, suspension, transaxles? are there any other forums that deal more with of the "bigger" picture of vintage speed.
i just got my hands on a '64 Ghia and would like to build a period (as much as i can) correct "track day car" Think, the Ghia and Hans at the Nurbugring track in 1967.
Short of building a 356, what vintage speed parts are out there? im sure there is a crap ton of parts, i just don't know what to look for.
thanks for any and all help |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: San Carlos, CA
|
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can do several things.
Install PORSCHE 356 brakes.
Box trailing arms.
Add 356 sway bar.
Add camber compensator.
De-camber rear wheels.
Install period correct tires (Michelin XAS).
Re-inforce pan.
Weld up truss bar.
Cheers,
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
|
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bucket seats
alloy spacers on the bottom front trailing arms
koni or bilstien shocks
I'm not sure if it's 67 applicable or wanted for a track car but by 1970 a quicksteer kit (or a early steering box as it has a slightly quicker ratio)
weight reduction
quickshift kit or an aftermarket short throw shifter
bonnet tie downs
people were getting custom gears cut by the early 60's... IMO that means modern short gears are ok.
a ZF LSD was a factory option
front beam stiffeners (also a factory option)
for a rally influence a halda speedpilot and/or halda trip/twinmaster, a butlers map light and stopwatch/s/clocks.
basically anything you can think up and make is fair game as far as I'm concerned.
aka I'm going for period rally mods, so shortly (when I pull my finger out and make it) i'll have a fly off handbrake made out of modified 28PCI choke parts and a couple of custom bits. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Southern Oregon
|
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
that's the stuff i'm looking for! my cut off date is 67, but im sure i could slide on the quicksteer kit.
i have thought about 356 brakes but they are stupid money..any other options?
anyone else have any ideas? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jacks Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006 Posts: 2348 Location: San Clemente, Ca.
|
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Back in the day, when hardly any hot rod parts were available for VW (except for the rich kids), we would take two stock sway bars and weld the ends together, then trim the sway bar bushings to allow the doubled bars to fit in them. A smaller steering wheel as well. 356 seats bolted to VW bottom frames. We also would pack 36 hp flywheel shims under the axle snap ring on the differential to preload the spider gears, making a "poor man's posi". We also modified the front brake backing plates to allow fitting of 356 wheel cylinders, converting them to dual leading shoes. I can't remember what year shoes we used, but they were standard VW. Type 3 brakes in the rear. Spax or Koni shocks. Unload the rear torsion bars just a bit, with a Empi camber compensator. Wider 356 wheels and somewhat used road racing tires (illegal for street use... we put them on anyways) finished the chassis mods. Have fun. _________________ Jack Staggs
Actual name |
|
Back to top |
|
|
henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
|
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
some inspiration
for reading try: http://www.shoptalkforums.com there are a couple of guys there racing ghias, more modern than you are looking for but I'm sure some stuff will translate... and they certainly make it sound fun. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Southern Oregon
|
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
what about lowering the front? could you get drop spindles in 67? also motor bits, i have a 40hp case that is only a few months off from the build date of the ghia..but i have also thought about building a 1.3 or 1.5 with some vintage hop up parts..any thoughts on the motor?
im sure i could just do a search, but does any one know of any digital copies of 60's EMPI catalogs? i feel like this would help me out a lot.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13957 Location: Southampton U.K.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Southern Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Alright, doing a Google search helped me find a 1967 EMPI catalog, i hope we can all be friends now..but im still a little lost on how they lowered the front of the car, did they pull a couple of the bars and compensate by stiffer shocks and a sway-bar? a big bag of sand? said F@&% it and didn't lower the car?
This should be the end of my questions..for now |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13281 Location: Tejas!
|
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
if you look at the 67 empi catalog, you will see that none of the cars are lowered. That didnt happen until much later |
|
Back to top |
|
|
henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1276 Location: australia
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
RareAir Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 14577 Location: 18 miles North of the border
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
RareAir Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 14577 Location: 18 miles North of the border
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Southern Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
boxing the trailing arms stiffens and strengthens them, under "high" G turns they will flex and then bend.
thank you Henry! you are little treasure chest of early racing parts info!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks wrote: |
what about lowering the front? |
As stated, VW didnt get lowered in the front. But maybe a little in the rear. The high front made it easier to handle well, I think. Is a thread about a 1300 racer here, he got some experience with what to do.
I know a guy who has been rallying VW's (and other cars) since the 60'ies, high front and lower in the rear was the standard. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert Chambers Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2005 Posts: 216
|
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I always thought the 1967 and 1968 Bugs with the rear anti sway bay sat lower than earlier year models? Anybody have information? _________________ '63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Southern Oregon
|
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I understand that in rally you would want a standard or higher height vehicle..but i'm not build a rally car. I cant say that i have ever seen a Grand Prix or any GT car with a saggy a$$ and a jacked up nose. Logic would state that they knew they had to lower the car front and rear, it was just a question of how...
Henry has already posted a link to evidence of an adjustable front beam from 1964, although it looks very home made, they still lowered the front. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Robert Chambers Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2005 Posts: 216
|
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My '56 Bug has an old school weld-on adjuster front beam. It was modified around 1970 by the PO. _________________ '63 OG 117 Herbie Replica
'56 Euro Oval Deluxe
'52 Standard Zwitter
'63 OG 117 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks wrote: |
I understand that in rally you would want a standard or higher height vehicle..but i'm not build a rally car. I cant say that i have ever seen a Grand Prix or any GT car with a saggy a$$ and a jacked up nose. Logic would state that they knew they had to lower the car front and rear, it was just a question of how...
Henry has already posted a link to evidence of an adjustable front beam from 1964, although it looks very home made, they still lowered the front. |
Look at this racing car, higher in the front
And a good thread. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cru62 Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002 Posts: 4117 Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
|
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CogHill Autowerks wrote: |
Alright, doing a Google search helped me find a 1967 EMPI catalog, i hope we can all be friends now..but im still a little lost on how they lowered the front of the car, did they pull a couple of the bars and compensate by stiffer shocks and a sway-bar? a big bag of sand? said F@&% it and didn't lower the car?
This should be the end of my questions..for now |
What about a Select-a-drop? Back in the late 60s they were the only way to drop the front of a T-1.
This one is a home-brew, but you get the idea. Weren't early 356s fitted with the same type of setup from the factory? Couldn't find a pic of that.
Here is an NOS Autohaus one-
A buddy of mine graduated from 2 bags of cement in the spare tire well of his '67 bug back in '70/'71 to a select-a-drop when he saved up the dough. Surprisingly, it rode way better with the cement in the trunk than with the Select-a-drop. _________________ "My biggest worry is that when I die, my wife will sell all my parts for what I told her I paid for them"-Jon
Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Last edited by cru62 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|