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Valve Train Failures
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:53 am    Post subject: Valve Train Failures Reply with quote

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-----------------------Valve Train Failures------------------------

Watch this: Sunken Valve Seat
Sunken Valve Seat Video

Dropped seat
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Dropped seat. This is indicative of a dropped valve seat. In this case it may be carbon build up, holding the valve open.
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Dropped seat
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Dropped seat intake type 4
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Sunken seat. Valve seat being pounded into head, shelf collapsing.
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Sunken seat
aeromech wrote:
Here's a pic of #3 intake on a 1979 bus I was involved with once.
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Sunken seat
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Burnt valve.
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Burnt valve.
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Valve broken. Broken valve head
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Valve broken. Broken valve tip
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Valve broken. Broken valve tip
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Valve broken. Type IV intake broken valve head broke off.
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Valve broken. Broken valve tip.
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Broken valve adjuster tip.
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Broken valve guide.
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Broken valve adjuster.
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Broken valve springs 1000 miles.
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Broken valve springs. Note the rust eats through the hardened surface and weakens the springs.
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Broken valve spring.
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Broken rocker shaft.
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Broken rocker stands.
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Broken rocker shaft.
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Broken push rod.
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Bent push rods.
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Bent push rod.
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Bent push rod and tube.
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Push rods cut by push rod tube retaining wire on a Type IV. This can be found on the cam side of the push rod as well. Why, because the PO flipped the push rods. Link: Pushrods
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Worn Cam lobe.
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Worn Cam lobe.
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Flattened cam lobe. Note pitting.
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Pulled rocker stud.
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Burnt head gasket
May be why VW sent out a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) to remove and discard the Type IV (4) cylinder head gaskets.
thnx to mayor ratwell
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Heads.html#gaskets
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Burnt Spark plug insert
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Type I rocker shaft spring clip failure.
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Type I another rocker shaft spring clip failure.
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Type IV Broken intake rockers.
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Broken boss on VW head. Diameter of Boss cut for dual springs.
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Broken guide boss.
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Last edited by Tcash on Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:16 pm; edited 28 times in total
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Brian
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is pretty gruesome Sick
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
This thread is pretty gruesome Sick


I was thinking it was a morbid way to start the day myself

but, it is a good way to reference the failures that occur with these old rigs

tcash is my hero Cool
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Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cha ching, cha ching
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Waves2day
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep I'm dealing with top picture... exciting times! Crying or Very sad
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of that can be traced to dual valve springs with otherwise stock valve train parts.

1. The thin guide bosses. ..done for dual springs

2. Spaghetti shaped PRs.....excessive valve spring preszure....along with the enertia of the deztructive moment. With dual springs I would move to thicker PRs or chromoly.

3. Valve tips and screw breakage....and hammering on the cam...probably too, much apring pressure.....high lift or high ratio of rocker or both....combined with too much slack in the valve adjustment.

4. All of this with rpm and load.

My question is whether dual springs were needed with the application. Ray
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... Shocked in one thread, so many curiosities explained.

So... What's the idea behind dual/heavy valve springs?
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timvw7476
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Valve Train Failures Reply with quote

the duals are for dragstrip high revs
those engines live for several hours
not several thousand hours : (
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve Train Failures Reply with quote

timvw7476 wrote:
the duals are for dragstrip high revs
those engines live for several hours
not several thousand hours : (


Ah! Well, that's good to know, thanks.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well.......high pressure/high tension duals live at the drag strip. Plenty on the streets as well.....but usually with large heavy valves and the need to control high lifts to keep valves from bouncing.

Looking back through its obvious a few of the more bent pushrods got that way from the tubes being pried on.....and some of this looks like an over the redline problem....and wome lik3 the cam wear looks like no oil and no oil changes.....and the pie shaped wedges missing from valve heads.....look like classic burned valves.

Amazing amount of abuse, neglect and damage documented there. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So... What's the idea behind dual/heavy valve springs?


springs have harmonic rates. They oscillate like a kid on a swing. To eliminate that two different springs are used so it dampens any chance of harmonic oscillation.

The spring closes the valve mass. The higher RPM the engine goes, the stronger the spring is needed to close it. A race engine that turns 10,000 RPM needs much stronger springs than a bus engine that turns at best 5.,000 to 5,500 RPM.

Springs also control the bleed down rate on later hydraulic lifters. Too light and the lifters pump up and don't bleed down.

In Type 4 engines the /E spring was used to control valves on the bus, 411, 412, 914-4 and 912E. Then on the 2L motor VW went to a /J spring that existed for a very short time. Then hydraulic lifters came out and they went to a /K which is very heavy duty. It is overkill on a solid lifter engine.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! PM sent with question...
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Vanapplebomb
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
This thread is pretty gruesome Sick


Gruesome, but very cool to see how parts fail.
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my59
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanapplebomb wrote:
Brian wrote:
This thread is pretty gruesome :-&


Gruesome, but very cool to see how parts fail.


Cool to see when it is not your engine.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunken Valve Seat
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Alex6373 wrote:
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Been there , brake fluid Embarassed


Last edited by Tcash on Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
Sunken Valve Seat
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good example of a 2.0L head gasket failure as well.
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HerrMahnenschmidt
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geezus, at first I thought this carnage was all from the same engine, and I couldn't help but wonder WTF???
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's that noise? ?? maybe WE can make it to the next exit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I've had single HD springs break,, pulled over when I felt the motor start to miss,, My fault,I over revved it Embarassed,, easy fix since I run CM pushrods,,
Who would use aluminum PR's with duals Shocked Shocked Shocked
as for stock rockers and duals, They work fine if set up RIGHT!!!!!,must used 'Bolted shafts!!! valve caps will help to.
This carnage must be from No maintenance?,, "Drivel it like u stole it" OR
Drive till it quits,,,, and go 20feet more Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Tcash wrote:
Sunken Valve Seat
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good example of a 2.0L head gasket failure as well.



Hey, that's my head! I'm knee-deep in that engine right now. It came out of a very neglected '77 westy. The cooling flaps and thermostat had been removed. That's #3. If I remember correctly, that's not the hottest running cylinder like it would be on a type 1 engine. The other combustion chambers were OK. The corresponding cam lobe was worn more than the others, but the other lobes were severely worn, as well. The rest of the engine looks really good. Very little wear in the bottom end and aside from a slight scuff mark on one of the piston skirts, the P/C look good.

Any ideas as to why the cam and lifters took such a beating? It did have hydraulic lifters. Didn't they come with solid lifters in '77?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another example of valve failures(from the same engine).

I noticed one of the valve stem tips riding a lot lower in the valve spring keeper.

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I discovered the grooves for the keepers were worn completely away. Here's a comparison.

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