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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: Dear beetle people - charging problem. |
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I'm currently the semi proud owner of a 1973 karmann ghia. I just replaced the volt regulator and generator( polarized both) and my genorator light comes on and when I take the plus side of the battery of it dies. I've straight wired the generator to the regulator, still nothing. I took the top of the regulator off and pushed on the points and the generator light went off, I'm going to the auto store to test it or replace it if that's the problem?
Here is my thread on the ghia forum http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7412701#7412701 _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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richardc Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010 Posts: 269 Location: New Jersey & North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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You don't polarize the regulator,if you tried you may have damaged it. Rich _________________ 1970 Ghia vert
1970 Beetle sedan |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Some People say you do, some say you don't. The instructions said to so I just went for it just because. It didn't mess anything up the first time I replaced it. _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:53 am Post subject: |
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I'd love to see a copy of those instructions telling you to polarize a voltage regulator. That's total rubbish.
A GENERATOR which has been left unused for a long time (weeks or months) will loose the residual magnetism in the soft iron core so there is no spinning magnet effect to get it working when you start the engine. Polarizing it just re-creates a magnetic field in the windings so it will start to work again.
There is NOTHING inside a voltage regulator which holds a residual magnetic field, so there is NOTHING which needs polarizing.
Alternators never need polarizing as they use a different metal core which does not hold a magnetic field anyway - they use the tiny current through the dash Alt light to start the alternator working.
To polarize a generator, remove the fan belt. Df is grounded to the case of the generator and D+ is connected for a few seconds only to the + side of the battery. If the gen does not spin, it's faulty and needs either an auto electrician to look at it, or replacement.
www.vw-resource.com/generator.html gives you the low-down on checking generator, voltage regulator and battery, with just a cheap digital multimeter. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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yeah I'll take a pic for you,Either way I'm thinking that's not my problem. And before Any one else has something to say about polarization just know that in the future I'll be sure to not do it on the regulator. I know how to polarize a generator and I've already looked at that page. _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Here is the picture. If you have anything to say about this please do not. I am already well aware to not do this. I'm posting it up here for shits and giggles.
_________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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richardc Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010 Posts: 269 Location: New Jersey & North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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now you have to start over in the diagnoses, first thing is to go to Rob and Daves website and read how to full field generator (what that does is isolates generator from rest of system and test to see if it's ok...let us know how that goes and will go from there. _________________ 1970 Ghia vert
1970 Beetle sedan |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I already did the electric motor test,it spins. I'll look that up in a bit. _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: |
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richardc wrote: |
now you have to start over in the diagnoses, first thing is to go to Rob and Daves website and read how to full field generator (what that does is isolates generator from rest of system and test to see if it's ok...let us know how that goes and will go from there. |
-Zodiac- wrote: |
I already did the electric motor test,it spins. |
That's not the test he's referring to.
Here is the link to Rob & Dave's page:
http://www.vw-resource.com/generator.html#maximum
You could also follow Speedy Jim's page:
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/gen.htm
In both examples you run the engine and force the generator (you have a generator, right?) to max output. You measure the voltage output from the D+ terminal and should get a reading above 30v (+35v @3000rpms is what is mentioned). If you generator can output this voltage it is probably good. That basically leave your VR as suspect.
FYI, the instructions for polarizing the VR is basically jumpering "around the VR" and applying battery voltage from the B+ terminal to the D+ terminal on the generator. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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yes.. I have a generator, not a alternator. I'm aware of the difference.
I'll try this test when I'm back around the ghia this weekend. _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting that pic Zodiac
ashman40 wrote: |
FYI, the instructions for polarizing the VR is basically jumpering "around the VR" and applying battery voltage from the B+ terminal to the D+ terminal on the generator. |
Yes - those instructions are not actually trying to polarise the regulator, they are just using the regulator connections to polarise the generator, so it's a little confusing.
And as Ashman says it's not as good a test as then separating the gen from the rest of the electrical system and watching the voltage swing up to 30+ volts (17+ on a 6v generator), as indicated on our pages and Speedy Jim's site. THAT tells you the gen is OK for sure. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Much appreciated. I'm thinking that the problem is the voltage regulator or at least I hope so. I'll find out this weekend for sure. _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Okay replaced the VR and tested the generator, it reads -0.15 what does this mean, bad generator ? _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:42 am Post subject: |
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What were the results of the generator max output test? The suggestion was to test the generator and if it was good then suspect the vr.
On your vr ,confirm which wires do you have connected to which terminal? _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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richardc Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010 Posts: 269 Location: New Jersey & North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Thats not a voltage reading at the battery,where are you getting that and what settings are you using on the DVOM? _________________ 1970 Ghia vert
1970 Beetle sedan |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I did it using the test above, connections from VR to gen are good, and correct. Wires in the Harness look good but I can straight wire it again. I used a multimeter set at 20dcv _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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richardc Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010 Posts: 269 Location: New Jersey & North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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If you said you polarized gen. and getting that type of reading on D+ with DF grounded then you have a problem with the generator. How i would do it (to eliminate any wiring problem) i would do your test at generator itself. _________________ 1970 Ghia vert
1970 Beetle sedan |
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richardc Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010 Posts: 269 Location: New Jersey & North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Another thought i have is with the engine off, put a wrench on generator and turn....see if it turns engine or belt slips.(belt glazed...slipping...loose) replace belt if it slips _________________ 1970 Ghia vert
1970 Beetle sedan |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Just took the gen off a while ago, tried to motor it and it didn't work. I guess I'll be replacing it _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:12 am Post subject: |
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-Zodiac- wrote: |
Okay replaced the VR and tested the generator, it reads -0.15 what does this mean, bad generator ? |
So all wires to the generator disconnected.
Jumper wire between DF and ground.
VM set to read up to 20VDC range.
Black COM probe to ground and red probe to D+ post.
Start engine and you took a voltage reading between the D+ stud and ground and you voltage reading was -0.15. This was at idle and 3000rpm?
If so, your generator is bad. You could try polarizing it once more. With the belt off it should spin. If it doesn't spin, it is another sign the generator is bad. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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