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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: 1970 VW Bus Ignition Issues |
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I purchased a 1970 VW Bus with an updated 78 or later 1600 in it. I had difficulty starting it so I replaced the plugs. I cleaned the contacts on the Bosch 9237 040 030 distributor and replaced the rotor. I get spark at all 4 plugs but I can not get the engine running. The best it will do is an occassional, half assed backfire after 5 to 10 seconds of cranking. Any suggestions please? _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: 1970 VW Bus Engine Description |
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Hi Rich,
I'm new to Samba, this is my first post so I'm figuring out how to post pictures. I have them loaded to a my Gallery - so I hope the instructions are correct.
Engine Bay
Vehicle
Distributor - BAA 905 205C - no vacuum advance, single carb, electronic ignition.
Do you need more information? _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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mnskmobi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2005 Posts: 536 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 VW Bus Ignition Issues |
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MSVW1970 wrote: |
I purchased a 1970 VW Bus with an updated 78 or later 1600 in it. I had difficulty starting it so I replaced the plugs. I cleaned the contacts on the Bosch 9237 040 030 distributor and replaced the rotor. I get spark at all 4 plugs but I can not get the engine running. The best it will do is an occassional, half assed backfire after 5 to 10 seconds of cranking. Any suggestions please? |
Was it running when you got it? |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Nice find! Doesn't seem to rusty and that engine bay looks great! Gas heater and all, I like it.
Was this bus running when you bought it? I'm sure you checked that is was getting fuel and the tank was clean. Have you checked the timing? Is the electronic ingintion hooked up correctly? Or maybe it's bad. Maybe the distro was out in 180* out. How about the wires and the grounds, all good? Have you tried pouring an ounce of gas into the carb? Maybe you have a vacuume lock in the fuel system or maybe no gas. Just standing in the dark here. I just play in the minors though, the pros will step in soon I'm sure. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: Bus Engine History |
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Hi Rich, thanks for the comments.
Pros or no pros, I'll take whatever information and tips I can get.
Yes, it was running when I bought it. Drove it from Waterloo to Huntsville without an issue - ok - maybe there was a flat spot on acceleration but I'm leaving that for later. I did notice that it was tougher to start when it was raining out. This is what I've done so far - insured that the crank pulley was TDC - V in line with crankcase split. #1 cylinder at TDC on power stroke, inlet and exhaust valves were closed, springs/tappets seemed to be loose. Distributor half moon drive slot is now parallel to crank pulley, but is forward to the cab rather than backward to the pulley. Distributor fits completely into the collar, rotor is positively driven by the drive. Rotor faces in the roughly 2pm position, this is where I set the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap, followed by #4, #3 and #2. Sound good so far or am I 180* out on something in the set-up? _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50257
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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That it was running says that the timing couldn't have been far off to start with. With a centrifugal only distributor it isn't of any great importance how the distributor drive aligns. If you changed something from the way it was then you have likely created a problem that will keep the engine from running. |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5291 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like u have a plug wire crossed? _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: Debugging VW Bus bad ignition |
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Hi guys,
Thank you very much for the link information and comments. Tonight, I will re-install the distributor. The smaller segment of the notch is to the top of centre line when I look at it. It would appear that I'm 180* off according to the Ratwell pictures. I will rotate the crank pulley back to TDC and make sure that the smaller segment is below the centre line and at roughly 12*.
I will let everyone know how I made out later tonight.
Back to my regular job now. _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: Debugging VW Bus bad ignition |
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Hi guys,
Thank you very much for the link information and comments. Tonight, I will re-install the distributor. The smaller segment of the notch is to the top of centre line when I look at it. It would appear that I'm 180* off according to the Ratwell pictures. I will rotate the crank pulley back to TDC and make sure that the smaller segment is below the centre line and at roughly 12*.
I will let everyone know how I made out later tonight.
Back to my regular job now. _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: Debugging VW Bus bad ignition |
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Hi guys,
Thank you very much for the link information and comments. Tonight, I will re-install the distributor. The smaller segment of the notch is to the top of centre line when I look at it. It would appear that I'm 180* off according to the Ratwell pictures. I will rotate the crank pulley back to TDC and make sure that the smaller segment is below the centre line and at roughly 12*.
I will let everyone know how I made out later tonight.
Back to my regular job now. _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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The position of the drive is irrelavent to timing, the distributor only fits in it one way and wherever the rotor is pointing when #1 cylinder is at the top of it's compression stroke is where the wire for #1 plug goes. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: Thumbing for TDC on #1 |
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Ok, I will then thumb test the #1 cylinder to make sure I'm on the power stroke and position the pulley at TDC. I will then pop the cap off of the distributor and see where the rotor is pointing. I will mark the rotor position and reinstall the cap. I will then take #1 plug wire and plug it into the cap above the rotor so spark is going to the #1 plug at TDC. I will then cross check the remaining wires and insert in the #4, #3 & #2 firing order. Before I tighten the distributor locking bolt, should I twist the distributor slightly to the left or right of the TDC #1 contact point? I have electronic ignition so I can't tell where the "point open/close" position is. _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Sounds good, but don't do any twisting yet, as you say you really have no idea where it's at, use a timing light once it's cranking if it doesn't run already. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I purchased a 1970 VW Bus with an updated 78 or later 1600 in it.
Is this even possible? I guess maybe if it came from a foreign market. What makes you think it's a 1978 or newer engine? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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MSVW1970 Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2014 Posts: 12 Location: Baysville
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: Newer 78 Engine? |
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Hi Aeromech,
I can't seem to find the engine serial number, it isn't below the stamped cylinder firing order on the engine block. According to the Volkswagen Official Service Manual Station Wagon/Bus, at the very end of the Electrical System, page K, there is an electrical schematic that shows the 3 wire Dist Send Unit on the distributor. That 3 wire harness goes into a bigger harness which terminates in a block that mounts on the firewall, just forward of the battery, ahead and above #1 cylinder. Top of page states - VW Type 2 - from August 1978 (79 Models) As a VW newbie, I'm still figuring it out. _________________ 1970 VW Bus
Richard of The Muskoka Surfboard Co. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I think they are talking about a type 4 engine and you have a type 1 engine, right? It may be that you have a distributor and matching coil from a 1979 type 4. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I think they are talking about a type 4 engine and you have a type 1 engine, right? It may be that you have a distributor and matching coil from a 1979 type 4.
Damn internet problems. Double post, sorry. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound
Last edited by aeromech on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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