Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Propex or gasoline heater Webasto / Espar
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
msewalson
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2009
Posts: 525
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
msewalson is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon_slider wrote:

did you read the link on page 4 labeled: "more discussion about webasto and espar "?

It suggests you only need the high altitude pump and can eliminate the low altitude pump entirely, with no need for a switch..


I read through it briefly but seems like most of the discussion in the thread is towards the diesel heaters. I guess the reason why I would have both pumps installed on a switch is because the elevations we camp at vary. I anticipate the heater being used at elevations above and below 5000'. If the electronic sensor was available for the B1LC I would probably go that route instead of the two pump method.

I also spoke with a rep at http://www.esparparts.com and he didn't think any special equipment was needed to operate the B1LC at higher elevations. He did mention that the D4's needed the sensor for high elevation use because of diesels "sooty burning" characteristics, like vanis13 found and mentioned.

FYI, http://www.esparparts.com price for the B1LC was $1650.

Matt
_________________
87 Syncro w/EJ22
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jon_slider
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 4706
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
Jon_slider is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msewalson wrote:

I also spoke with a rep at http://www.esparparts.com and he didn't think any special equipment was needed to operate the B1LC at higher elevations. ...
FYI, http://www.esparparts.com price for the B1LC was $1650.


Thanks for sharing info.

Yes, that discussion talks about using a high altitude pump by itself, even at low altitude.

If you go ahead with installing 2 pumps and a switch, you will be in the best of both worlds, I just thought if you got the high altitude pump instead of both, you would be saving some money.

And the discussion explains that at low altitude the high altitude pump works fine.. Mirror image to your info that at high altitude the low altitude pump works fine at low altitude also.

Since you live at altitude, I would lean towards the high altitude pump, and think you could skip the low altitude pump altogether, especially if you can get credit for it during purchase.

congrats on your decision to go single fuel. Its much less stressful running a gas furnace overnight, instead of a Propex and worrying about running out of propane.

I love the way my furnace will keep the van warm overnight in snow. Helps keep condensatioin down. Enjoy!
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoustonPhotog
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2013
Posts: 1281
Location: Houston, TX
HoustonPhotog is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

****copying my post from my own build thread****

I finally pulled the trigger on a Webasto (gasoline) heater for the van and after many weeks of trying to decide where to put it I opted for placing it right behind the passenger seat.

My reasoning?
Well for one... I wanted the hot air outlet vent to remain completely unobstructed. I normally sleep on the lower bunk and having covers/blankets over hang the bench bed and onto the floor obstructs the airflow of the heater if i had placed it under the bench seat. maybe not enough to make a big deal but I just wanted the air flow to be the best t can be. I also wanted the return ambient air intake at least 2' away from the hot air outlet. I'm not a fan of placing the ambient air intake right next to the hot air outlet. They need to be spaced apart.

I currently have a Thetford Marine Toilet for the lady that we keep where the stock fridge was originally located. That thing takes up a ton of storage space for food and such. This design allows us to house the toilet in this base, when its needed there will be a door on the side where the toilet can be slid out of the cabinet and placed on the floor. easy peasy.

Here's a model of the box in AuoCAD. The second vent on the front is just to let that underneath cabinet area beathe a little. not for air out or air in.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I made the openings in the cabinet to fit the stock Westfalia flat cabinet doors that are used next to the galley. GoWesty still sells these as New Old Stock straight from Westfalia so I ordered two doors and some grey hinges. I found a place locally that sells the grey laminate that GoWesty also sells but I can buy it in large 4'x8' sheets instead of smaller sheets via GoWesty.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Webasto heater installed with a short radius outlent elbow added since the area under the cabinet is very tight.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I found a sign place here in Houston that had a CNC Router and I contacted them to cut out my panels. Since I designed the cabinet in AutoCAD I just sent the shop a DXF file of all of the panels laid flat on a 4'x8' outline. I took a sheet of 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood to the shop and a day later my panels were ready to be picked up. sweet! they charged me $40.

Assembly took about a couple of hours. this is a usable mockup. I plan to use this version for a month or two and camp with it and see how I need to change it or tweak it to suite my needs. I already see a few things I want to change and things I need to correct... Final version will get full laminate treatment and edge trimming. I want it to look as stock as possible.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can't wait to try this out!
_________________
Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanis13
Samba Member


Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 747
Location: ABQ NM
vanis13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is some nice work.

for reference, here is HoustonPhotog build thread link - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7476390#7476390
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

I can send you the capacitor to Fix/prevent Vanagon Syndrome and/or smooth out idle - See here - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5445671#5445671
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VWinVT
Samba Member


Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1534
Location: North East Kingdom
VWinVT is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a silly/already covered topic; but if left unanswered, then the silliness transfers to me! Anyway, I have an aircooled Vanagon (Westy) that, as we all do, I love very much and would like to drive her much more often. Though my engine runs HOT, my cab stays COLD. I totally agree that the single fuel, gas powered Webasto is the way to go. Abundant fuel, both on board and just around the corner (not to mention a fuel gauge!!).

My question is this: Are there any issues with drivability (ie. fuel pressure/flow) if the Webasto is operating while I am driving? I have the California emisions/fuel injected air-cooled Vanagon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newfisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1756
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
newfisher is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not think so. So little pressure to operate them that it is most likely less than the bleed off not being used by the engine. I had one in a beetle and noticed no change in performance when it was running.
There is a complete set up in the classifieds from an air cooled vanagon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newfisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1756
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
newfisher is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not think so. So little pressure to operate them that it is most likely less than the bleed off not being used by the engine. I had one in a beetle and noticed no change in performance when it was running.
There is a complete set up in the classifieds from an air cooled vanagon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newfisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1756
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
newfisher is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not think so. So little pressure to operate them that it is most likely less than the bleed off not being used by the engine. I had one in a beetle and noticed no change in performance when it was running.
There is a complete set up in the classifieds from an air cooled vanagon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VWinVT
Samba Member


Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1534
Location: North East Kingdom
VWinVT is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you see the add in the classifieds? I cant seem to locate it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VWinVT
Samba Member


Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1534
Location: North East Kingdom
VWinVT is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nevermind, I found it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newfisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1756
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
newfisher is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Search " gas heater" there are two of them. One looks very complete.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 8822
Location: Riviera Beach, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HoustonPhotog wrote:
****copying my post from my own build thread****

I finally pulled the trigger on a Webasto (gasoline) heater for the van and after many weeks of trying to decide where to put it I opted for placing it right behind the passenger seat.

Can't wait to try this out!


Well executed. Using the size of the heater as a reference, does this unit protrude into the walkway between the seats?
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoustonPhotog
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2013
Posts: 1281
Location: Houston, TX
HoustonPhotog is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rsxsr wrote:

Well executed. Using the size of the heater as a reference, does this unit protrude into the walkway between the seats?


Thanks... yes the overall box extends into the aisle way exactly half way. the door under the sink still fully opens and it is still possible to get from the front of the cabin into the back of the cabin. Not as easy as it was before the box was added but still doable.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I love the added storage the box provides. I'm considering instead of running a bunch of wires to under my drivers seat for power I may just run two 8ga wires to the box and install a Blue Sea fuse/distribution block under the false floor of the box in order to power all of the accessories there. Heater, 12v sockets, usb sockets, volt meter, led lighting for inside the box etc.

i have a small block mounted in the rear of the van for those accessories as pictured. I'd just wire up another one of these under the box i built.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 8822
Location: Riviera Beach, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspected it encroached into the passage a bit. Thanks for the extra pic. The thing about these vans is how to best utilize the space. For us and our 80 pound dog, we need the floor space and the ability to swivel the passenger seat when camped.

After a couple weeks on the road, it really gets quite small. I found the area under the rear seat is hardest to access for things you need all the time. I decided to give that area up to my heater, auxiliary battery, and invertor. I have some space left, but use it for those things we don't need daily. Well done.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoustonPhotog
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2013
Posts: 1281
Location: Houston, TX
HoustonPhotog is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rsxsr wrote:
I found the area under the rear seat is hardest to access for things you need all the time. I decided to give that area up to my heater, auxiliary battery, and invertor. I have some space left, but use it for those things we don't need daily. Well done.

agreed!

i installed a door there. helps a ton for storage access.. like a mini closet.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


also added a door in the rear closet, much more user friendly too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VWinVT
Samba Member


Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1534
Location: North East Kingdom
VWinVT is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too need to keep as much open floor space as possible with 2 little kids and a Boxer! I would like to also keep all of my under seat storage. So I am intrigued by the Webasto location directly behind the main battery box.

Would it be possible, perhaps, for the Webasto be mounted on the vertical side of the battery box, with the vents on the inboard side? This would allow me to build a shallow box around the Webasto saving storage and floor space!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanis13
Samba Member


Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 747
Location: ABQ NM
vanis13 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VWinVT wrote:
I too need to keep as much open floor space as possible with 2 little kids and a Boxer! I would like to also keep all of my under seat storage.


did you consider this location identified earlier in this thread that uses currently mostly inaccessible space between the water tank and the cabinet?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7397381#7397381


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I put even my much bigger B4 in that space -

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

I can send you the capacitor to Fix/prevent Vanagon Syndrome and/or smooth out idle - See here - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5445671#5445671
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoustonPhotog
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2013
Posts: 1281
Location: Houston, TX
HoustonPhotog is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting this here for other Webasto users..

I have friend from California that installed a Webasto a few months ago and is currently on their way to Argentina. He sent me a message saying his Webasto stopped heating. He didn't realize that stock Webasto heaters are tuned for elevations below 5,000 ft. They've been camping at 7,500-10,000 feet for a couple of weeks.

Me having a Colorado camping trip coming up I looked up some info, found this posted on a Sprinter Forum. Its a process to which a user can hard set their Webasto heater to provide less fuel to the burner when at higher elevations.

Stock Dial Thermostat:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


*********************************************************************
Changing the Webasto heater for high elevations (5,000ft and MORE) using the Stock Dial Thermostat
*********************************************************************


Post from the Sprinter Forum:

Quote:
OK Folks, just got off of the phone with Webasto tech support. The Air Top 2000 ST can be manually adjusted for high altitude by the end user. It involves reducing the fuel supply as well, but does not need any other parts. It will keep your combustion chamber from coking up at low oxygen/high altitude levels and will also make for easier starting at high altitudes.

According to Webasto tech support here is the procedure:

the main wiring harness that comes out of the heater case itself has a diagnostic pigtail of 2 wires, one brown and one green. This diagnostic pigtail is what the techs use for programming the system.

1: Connect the brown wire to ground.
2: Turn the heater control knob to 12:00 (or even 1:00 if you are at very high altitude 10,000ft plus)
3: After a few moments, the LED on the heater control knob will begin to flash.
4: Turn the heater control knob to 9:00 (or even 8:00 if you are at very high altitude 10,000ft plus)
5: Keep the heater running with the control knob set to 9:00 for 3 minutes.
6: While the heater is running, remove the brown wire from ground.

Now the fuel pump should be set to deliver less fuel, thereby creating a better combustion mixture for high altitude and less oxygen.

The tech said you can change it back when at sea level, but also said it was unnecessary, as the reduced fuel will not cause damage at sea level, just a lower heat output by 100-200 BTU/ hour at the maximum setting. He said that running it lean at sea level will also help to keep the combustion chamber clean. The Webasto Air Top 2000 ST has a max BTU/h of 7000 so you are only losing at most 3%, and you are also reducing your fuel use, albeit marginally. Also, the system has Stepless temperature control, so you can feel free to turn it up 3% to regain your "lost" output all the way up to 97% output.


I too spoke to a Webasto tech yesterday and he confirmed the process mentioned above that was dated back to 2010 but one thing he mentioned was if at very high altitudes he'd recommend starting at 1:00 for Step 2 and ending at 8:00 for Step 4 & 5.

I asked the tech is there any tell tale sign the change worked and he said that a stock Webasto heater fuel pump will pulsate once every 1.1 seconds. After the hard set adjustment for a higher altitude the fuel pump pulsations will get further apart... 1.3 seconds or more. So I think its best to check the fuel pump pulsations before the hard set. then make the hard set. then check fuel pump pulsations again. Just to verify the settings took.


*********************************************************************
Changing the Webasto heater back for normal elevations (5,000ft and LESS) using the Stock Dial Thermostat
*********************************************************************


According to Webasto tech support here is the procedure:

the main wiring harness that comes out of the heater case itself has a diagnostic pigtail of 2 wires, one brown and one green. This diagnostic pigtail is what the techs use for programming the system.

1: Connect the brown wire to ground.
2: Turn the heater control knob to 9:00
3: After a few moments, the LED on the heater control knob will begin to flash.
4: Turn the heater control knob to 12:00
5: Keep the heater running with the control knob set to 12:00 for 3 minutes.
6: While the heater is running, remove the brown wire from ground.

Now the fuel pump should be set to deliver the stock amount of fuel, thereby creating a better combustion mixture for low altitudes and more oxygen.
_________________
Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoustonPhotog
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2013
Posts: 1281
Location: Houston, TX
HoustonPhotog is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SmarTemp Thermostat:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



*********************************************************************
Changing the Webasto heater for high elevations (5,000ft and MORE) using the SmartTemp Thermostat
*********************************************************************


Since I upgraded to the SmartTemp digital thermostat I asked the Webasto tech the procedure for this control.

According to Webasto tech support here is the procedure:

the main wiring harness that comes out of the heater case itself has a diagnostic pigtail of 2 wires, one brown and one green. This diagnostic pigtail is what the techs use for programming the system.

1: Connect the brown wire to ground.
2: Turn the SmartTemp Thermostat on and turn the thermostat up to 80 Degrees
3: After a few moments, the LED on the heater thermostat will begin to flash. (<-- This is not confirmed. Will test soon. Abel.)
4: Turn the thermostat down to 60 degrees.
5: Keep the heater running with the thermostat set to 60 degrees for 3 minutes.
6: While the heater is running, remove the brown wire from ground.


*********************************************************************
Changing the Webasto heater back for normal elevations (5,000ft and LESS) using the SmartTemp Thermostat
*********************************************************************


Since I upgraded to the SmartTemp digital thermostat I asked the Webasto tech the procedure for this control.

According to Webasto tech support here is the procedure:

the main wiring harness that comes out of the heater case itself has a diagnostic pigtail of 2 wires, one brown and one green. This diagnostic pigtail is what the techs use for programming the system.

1: Connect the brown wire to ground.
2: Turn the SmartTemp Thermostat on and turn the thermostat down to 60 Degrees
3: After a few moments, the LED on the heater thermostat will begin to flash. (<-- This is not confirmed. Will test soon. Abel.)
4: Turn the thermostat up to 80 degrees.
5: Keep the heater running with the thermostat set to 80 degrees for 3 minutes.
6: While the heater is running, remove the brown wire from ground.
_________________
Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HoustonPhotog
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2013
Posts: 1281
Location: Houston, TX
HoustonPhotog is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*********************************************************************
Clearing out Webasto heater if it stopped working from use at high elevations (5,000ft and MORE)
*********************************************************************


My friend from California has his heater all sooted up from running too rich. Too much fuel for the amount of oxygen in the air at their high elevation. The heater will not work. I asked the Tech if there was anything he could do to get it running since they're well south of Mexico City on their way to Argentina.

This method is NOT confirmed yet but will be done soon and I'll report back.

According to Webasto tech support here is the procedure:

1: turn the heater on.
2: Turn Thermostat as high as it will go.
3: Open all the doors and windows allowing all heat to escape the vehicle.
4: Once heater is blowing used compressed air to blow into the air intake of the heater which is under the van in order to help blow out the soft soot that has accumulated inside the heater out the exhaust tube. You should see soot blow out.
5: Keep the heater running for at least an hour, 2-3 hours is ideal.
6: Continue to use compressed air into the intake tube (outside the van) to blow out any soot out.
7. Once cleared out, Its recommended to remove the Exhaust tube and blow air through it as well to make sure all of the loose soft soot is removed from the exhaust flow.
_________________
Abel Longoria
VanAlert App for Vanagons/Buses | Texas Vanagons | My Vanagon Build Thread | Follow Me On Instagram | Vanagon-centric Stickers Available Now


Last edited by HoustonPhotog on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:43 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 6 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2016, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB