| Author |
Message |
IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:20 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Yes I think the lifted suspensions would be an interesting factor to know what percent of the flops and such had that mod. The amount of work we used to put into suspension development aimed specifically to avoid rollovers was enormous. And once the sweet spot was attained, it was surprising to see how much a small mod brings rollovers back into the vehicles behavior.
But I suspect the more experienced folks would probably agree that even the best habits and good trail sense can result in a flop if you are out running the tougher trails regularly. The very good wheelers know that the fun starts at 30° lean angles and its just like climbing the higher mountains, skiing off the cornices, and carrying that extra 2mph through the rock garden on a mountain bike. Wheeling in those rarified circumstances lurks the rock that suddenly rolls, the edge of a rain rut that collapses, and the front tire that loses grip on the ledge just when the opposite tire is over the big hole you hope to traverse. Its a bit of an exciting crap shoot even with the right frame of mind and skill set.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1858
Location: anchor pt. alaska
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldve like to seen more of the damage that resulted in those flops. Was there more cosmetic sheetmetal damage or that plus racked bodies?
Touching on original topic, its springlike driving up here. Its 38 degrees and raining! Whats up. We would rather it freezes up and stay that way. The traction is better. Something i notice also is with no snow ( mostly ) its alot darker morning and night driving. With snow everywhere it generally easier to see the road.
Funny, all the energy spent on these things to make them 4x4 better ( im no exception ) and
wanting so bad to compete with the big boys we need to remember these are rooms on wheels. I know. Thats the coolest part, pulling to the top of the mountain, hill, etc and brought the kitchen sink! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| Yes I think the lifted suspensions would be an interesting factor to know what percent of the flops and such had that mod. |
two were stock
blue tintop- backing, flopped onto driver side. Inexperienced Syncronaut
Dave Jordan- backing, flopped onto driver side. Expert Syncronaut
bear in mind these flops are being done at a 4x4 park, by expert drivers with lots of experience testing the limits of their vehicles.
Also, Syncros are going over terrain that 4x4s with 33"+ tires and deeper articulation than our vans, build the holes into. So the syncros are more likely to flop due to smaller tires following "Jeep" tracks.
| alaskadan wrote: |
| I wouldve like to seen more of the damage that resulted in those flops. |
these are all just flops, body damage, but not frame damage. None of the vans rolled onto the roof.
CV Bill fixed his, covered by insurance!
The blue tintop was a total loss, according to an onsite body shop estimator, damage to every body panel on driver side.
Randall had no damage, the body of the van was hanging in mid air, supported by the wheels stuck into the hillside
The white van in the obstacle course had almost no damage, he leaned over onto a steep soft hill, that I was sitting on, about 3 feet away. I think he just broke a mirror.
Buslab is an auto repair business, they fix their own messes, they actually flopped 2 Vans on different years. The one on the downhill rut had a brand new paint job, it needed body panel work and another repaint. The other one downhill had relatively minor body damage, and the vehicle is built specifically for offroading use by the shop staff.
Dave Jordan is an accomplished Van builder, I suspect he will do his own body work.
FrankenSubySyncro had body panel damage that he fixed himself
I don't know the details of Dan Flemings flop
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Altoona
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2011
Posts: 505
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Where did the front turn signals go?!? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BavarianWrench
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2004
Posts: 1045
Location: Oceans Edge
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I love where this thread is going! As for Insurance covering off road test track induced body damage? I'm not sure the insured wants to discus that one in public! Or is there a policy that covers that type of damage. There was a guy who used to work with me and used his Jeep daily driver as an off road rec veh. He hit his company up for 10g in repairs after flipping in a trail. What is the deal with that. I'm on my own if I crash off road. Do I need a different plan?
We can start a new thread on this one or just PM me. I don't want to derail this 
CV Bill fixed his, covered by insurance!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Altoona wrote: |
| Where did the front turn signals go?!? |
At the time of that pic I believe (not positive) his front turn signals were embedded within his headlights like they often were in ancient times.
The thing about 'Wild' Bill (what some of us that know him well fondly call him) is every time I see him, maybe twice a year, there are some or many things that change on the rig. Like when I saw him last May and again in August, the pop-top was off. And the instrument panel, part of what you can see the back of in the pic thru the windshield, looks like that in a B-17.
Anyway, Bill told me he has a good rapport with a mechanic and body guy near where he lives, which is not too far from where Syncrofest occurs, who understands what and how Bill uses his syncro (expectations). Bill's common refrain is "let's go break something" and also "roll your own".
Unfortunately I can't tell you how he finances it all but at almost every major off-road outing he'll do some damage, then the next time it looks good as new. And ... as a result he's one of the major experienced, fearless syncro drivers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, today's storm started as snow, turned to ice and is now teaming rain.
From my snowboarding days, we called this variable conditions
On a Syncro related note...I have seen the calcium fortified road spray mess with my gas gauge for the last time.
I will post up some protective measures for the connection and wiring.
I have been monitoring my oxygen sensor since posting that I coat it with Fluid Film before storms...much less variation in the numbers displayed by my Shoebox DigiTool since doing so and a solid 19mpgs with winter mix gasoline.
I'm cool with that  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
X2 Thanks! Insyncro  I have noticed my MPG's down when traveling in winter conditions. Maybe this will help! 
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know if it will help or hinder yet.
What I do know is that I used to coat them with a white Loctite Hi Temp grease and the numbers were all over the place after doing so.
Having the sensor cover, pictured earlier in the thread makes a huge difference and the FF seams to protect but not interfere with them like the grease did.
I look forward to some more Volks giving it a shot in nasty conditions and letting me know if they saw any changes...good or bad.
The Syncro getting 19mpgs is a 91, bone stock, tuned by me of course, running 215/75/15 Nokians.
It has been getting full tanks of either Sunoco 93 or PitStop 91 E free since I purchased it in Sept.
Mobil1 0w40 and Mobil1 205 filter incase anyone is interested. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WestyBob
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always had the impression you folks who live in regions where they used lots of salt and other corrosive juice usually keep your vanagons/syncros in storage until spring. Do some of you drive a dedicated syncro, like an old rusty, in winter or do you power wash underneath after every drive in the snow/ice/slush ?
In the Portland (Pdx) area of Oregon we're having a warmer than usual winter so far -- nary a snowflake -- and even the rain is down (more sun). Up until relatively recently they did not use road corrosives but now, in the nearby mountains, they do drop chemicals and in Southern Oregon, when crossing over the mountains between OR and CA, they drop a lot.
Several years ago I went through some orange stuff on the Oregon side coming in from CA and it really got my pipes pretty rusty. And if the Pdx area forecast does include snow they'll sneakily put down some corrosive road chemicals. I say sneakily because Pdx in particular, collectively anti-chemicals ala pro-environment, and always anti-salt, is losing ground to that stuff.
In decades past what they did use out here is crushed cinder (volcanic area) and sometimes sand. But those chemicals are edging in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luVWagn
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2008
Posts: 1340
Location: Snoqualmie (WA)
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| insyncro wrote: |
The Syncro getting 19mpgs is a 91, bone stock, tuned by me of course, running 215/75/15 Nokians.
It has been getting full tanks of either Sunoco 93 or PitStop 91 E free since I purchased it in Sept. |
Curious why the 91 or 93 grade gas, for a regular old wbxr 2.1L engine? I thought you'd get the same mileage out of 87 or 89?
_________________
'91 Syncro 16 Reimo Hightop Conversion, eTDI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flomulgator
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2013
Posts: 950
Location: Leavenworth, WA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| WestyBob wrote: |
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always had the impression you folks who live in regions where they used lots of salt and other corrosive juice usually keep your vanagons/syncros in storage until spring. Do some of you drive a dedicated syncro, like an old rusty, in winter or do you power wash underneath after every drive in the snow/ice/slush ?
|
I bought my syncro westy primarily for ski-camping, and Washington is quickly becoming a salt state. Entropy is the enemy, FeO2 is it's weapon, threads like this help us fight back.
My garage has no room for a show queen that has surrendered to fear 
_________________
She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| WestyBob wrote: |
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always had the impression you folks who live in regions where they used lots of salt and other corrosive juice usually keep your vanagons/syncros in storage until spring. Do some of you drive a dedicated syncro, like an old rusty, in winter or do you power wash underneath after every drive in the snow/ice/slush ?
In the Portland (Pdx) area of Oregon we're having a warmer than usual winter so far -- nary a snowflake -- and even the rain is down (more sun). Up until relatively recently they did not use road corrosives but now, in the nearby mountains, they do drop chemicals and in Southern Oregon, when crossing over the mountains between OR and CA, they drop a lot.
Several years ago I went through some orange stuff on the Oregon side coming in from CA and it really got my pipes pretty rusty. And if the Pdx area forecast does include snow they'll sneakily put down some corrosive road chemicals. I say sneakily because Pdx in particular, collectively anti-chemicals ala pro-environment, and always anti-salt, is losing ground to that stuff.
In decades past what they did use out here is crushed cinder (volcanic area) and sometimes sand. But those chemicals are edging in. |
You are correct, usually herein the northeast, the nice old cars are put away for the winter months. I'm driving my syncro through the winter because I want to test out the Quattro system in the snow, also the body is already not the greatest. I know Dylan has his nice syncros put away and is driving one he bought just to use for the winter season. The amount of salt combined with the damp air can destroy what was a nice old vehicle in just a couple years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Andrew and I are brave 
The conditions we see here in our area beg for a vehicle with the traction of our beloved vans.
I am testing all sorts of goops, waxes, greases...driveline parts, tires and constantly working on my driving skills.
Andrews Quattro Syncro is an amazing piece of work...on pavement, offroad and in varying conditions.
Our weather is what has lit a fire under us so to speak.
Yes, my keepers are under van covers and stored inside.
The parts vans are stored outdoors.
My current winter van:
It is actually pretty nice by current standards, my opinion, and the driveline has very low mileage.
It will receive a full restoration at some point, but now it is driven and enjoyed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| luVWagn wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
The Syncro getting 19mpgs is a 91, bone stock, tuned by me of course, running 215/75/15 Nokians.
It has been getting full tanks of either Sunoco 93 or PitStop 91 E free since I purchased it in Sept. |
Curious why the 91 or 93 grade gas, for a regular old wbxr 2.1L engine? I thought you'd get the same mileage out of 87 or 89? |
They run better, my opinion.
Plenty of conflicting info on the interweb for ones reading pleasure on the subject and I am certainly not trying to throw gas on a fire, sorry for the pun.
I have also sent random gasoline samples away over the years to have tested.
I use Sunoco or Mobil gas if available and run ethanol free fuels in all of my toys, equipment, and now a few of the vans with tuned engines that I have made a few modifications too...along with trick parts from Rocky, TenCent, GW...I feel a difference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1858
Location: anchor pt. alaska
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Heck yeah im driving this thing year round! We'll fight the good fight and im gonna drive it into the ground! Lovin every minute of it. Then ill buy another body tranfer all the goodies and do it again. I dont think one could fully enjoy a syncro only driving it in the summer. Ive just begun to get to know a syncro, wish i had gotten one sooner. And its fricken raining here too. Though i dont miss my snow shovel. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Birdcage
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2013
Posts: 203
Location: Collins of fort
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've been driving the wife's rig with NOKIAN rotiivas for the past week in snow, ice.
I do not recommend them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluefirefly
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011
Posts: 438
Location: Calgary, Ab
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jon_slider wrote: |
| Birdcage wrote: |
I've been driving the wife's rig with NOKIAN rotiivas for the past week in snow, ice.
I do not recommend them. |
that makes sense, be careful, it says its a Summer tire:
http://www.nokiantyres.com/summer-tyres/nokian-rotiiva-at/
I hate summer tires in the snow, too
heres a WRC Van winter nokian, which also works in the summer
http://www.nokiantires.com/winter-tires/nokian-wr-c-van/
and a summer Rotiiva, which does not work in winter, because instead it has special harder rubber to make it get more lifetime miles.. its a trade, winter awesomeness or super long miles
|
This is my problem with Nokian!
Jon linked a "european" site, look at the site address carefully, it is for tyre with a Y where they call the Rotiiva a summer tire!
Now, if you look at this following address from a North American website, you will see tire (with a I) and indeed, they call the Rotiiva a winter tire..... with Severe Service Emblem..... what a joke.
But hey, you can go anywhere you want, even if a Winter tire is mandatory on the road!
Here is the Rotiiva winter......NA:
http://www.nokiantires.com/winter-tires/nokian-rotiiva-at-2/
Here is the Rotiiva summer....EU:
http://www.nokiantyres.com/summer-tyres/nokian-rotiiva-at/
_________________
86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
