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lugo2214 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2014 Posts: 134 Location: Pinckard, AL
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: Automatic tranny who or how to test them? |
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Hello all;
Want to buy a 010 auto tranny to have for future replacement into a 73 bus along with a 2.0 engine. Is there a way to test them before mounting to find out bad news?
Who can test?
How to test?
Who rebuilts them?
Seen the 003 rebuilt thread wonder if they are somehat similar?
Thsnks for the replies _________________ RoRo's Campeter
1973 Tin Top Campmobile
Type 4 ENG / 2.0 HYD LIFT
003 Auto Trans 😆/😣
Dual Empi 44
009 Ignition
Ice Auto Air A/C kit 50% installed |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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About all you can do to "test" them is to look for external leaks, drain both boxes and look for contaminates and mixing, and check the filter. The tranny is not hard to teardown as trannies go and a teardown needs to be done at some point anyway to replace the seals. Any competent tranny shop should be able to do the work or you could do it yourself. You could check with your local ACVW club to see who might have expertise in your part of the country or you could ship it off to a place like German Transaxle in Bend, OR.
To put an 010 into your '73 with carbs, you are going to need to build a custom throttle arrangement which incorporates the feedback rod to the tranny. |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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x2 what Wildthings said. You can also try and smell the fluid, being wary of a sickly burnt smell. Make sure whatever spare tranny you buy has the pump drive shaft! Many times these are missing and a bitch to find.
I have future plans to upgrade the 003/1.7 liter combination to a 010/2.0 liter setup, and have everything I need. I have opened up the 010 and it appears to be somewhat more refined... and perhaps more complicated.... to rebuild.
Keep in mind that rebuild kits for these are starting to get scarce, and the 'hard parts' are even more difficult to find. |
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lugo2214 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2014 Posts: 134 Location: Pinckard, AL
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Wasted youth wrote: |
Make sure whatever spare tranny you buy has the pump drive shaft! Many times these are missing and a bitch to find. |
Thank guys
Punp drive shaft refers to the TQ converter atachment shaft? _________________ RoRo's Campeter
1973 Tin Top Campmobile
Type 4 ENG / 2.0 HYD LIFT
003 Auto Trans 😆/😣
Dual Empi 44
009 Ignition
Ice Auto Air A/C kit 50% installed |
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Back to top |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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The smaller shaft with the splined end, in the middle of the hollow shaft... they pull right out:
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lugo2214 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2014 Posts: 134 Location: Pinckard, AL
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a bunch
As far as mounting a 010 to a 003 bus chasis, any mods needed to support it?
010 from an air cooled 2.0 vanagon, will it fit? _________________ RoRo's Campeter
1973 Tin Top Campmobile
Type 4 ENG / 2.0 HYD LIFT
003 Auto Trans 😆/😣
Dual Empi 44
009 Ignition
Ice Auto Air A/C kit 50% installed |
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Back to top |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't got that far yet myself. My guess is there will likely need some bracketing or adjustments to deal with. I think that going from the vacuum modulated 003 to the mechanical 010 will be the larger challenge. May be some RPM shift point issues to deal with, too. |
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ddesh Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2005 Posts: 165 Location: NW AR.
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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you will also need to find a 010 shift cable as well they are also different. Shift cables are getting harder to find. |
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Gregg in the 603 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2013 Posts: 398 Location: New Hampshire, USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wasted youth, what tranny is that in the picture? That pump shaft looks different from the one on my 010. _________________ 1979 Mexico Beige Westy auto
Dirty Dover, NH |
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lugo2214 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2014 Posts: 134 Location: Pinckard, AL
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks all
Hi ddesh
Got any of those parts your way? _________________ RoRo's Campeter
1973 Tin Top Campmobile
Type 4 ENG / 2.0 HYD LIFT
003 Auto Trans 😆/😣
Dual Empi 44
009 Ignition
Ice Auto Air A/C kit 50% installed |
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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I did the the swap from a 003 to a 010 in my 75
basically you need a doner bus to make it happen
everything is completely different
transmission mounts
the mustache bar above tranny is also different
new gas throttle cable tube will need to be made from rear axle to tranny
new holes threw body for throttle bar (vs throttle cable)
every detail from the shift rod back will be needed
its a much bigger project than it sounds
even if you do get lucky enough to get every single little part needed
youll still need the doner bus to make comparisons
to see where certain holes need to be and how other parts go _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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All of these trannies required a seal change between the transfer case and differential at 7 years or 70k miles. I dont know if there was a TSB on aircooled but there was one for wate4cooled using essentially the same Borg warner transfer case and a bolted on diff section just like these. I have personally found the same to be true with the aircooled ones. Its cheap and dirt simple with the gearbox out of the car. Ray |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Gregg in the 603 wrote: |
Wasted youth, what tranny is that in the picture? That pump shaft looks different from the one on my 010. |
That is an 003 with the final drive removed. You are looking at just the transmission portion, with the fluid pump drive shaft still installed. |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:48 am Post subject: |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
All of these trannies required a seal change between the transfer case and differential at 7 years or 70k miles. I dont know if there was a TSB on aircooled but there was one for wate4cooled using essentially the same Borg warner transfer case and a bolted on diff section just like these. I have personally found the same to be true with the aircooled ones. Its cheap and dirt simple with the gearbox out of the car. Ray |
Ray, you reference transfer case... I am only familiar with transfer cases on 4WD vehicles... are you talking about Synchros? Or are using this reference as a similarity in application?
The seal between my final drive and the transmission had been blown by, contaminating the final drive with ATF. I did read somewhere about installing two seals 180 degrees from each other in that cavity as an upgrade. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Wasted youth wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
All of these trannies required a seal change between the transfer case and differential at 7 years or 70k miles. I dont know if there was a TSB on aircooled but there was one for wate4cooled using essentially the same Borg warner transfer case and a bolted on diff section just like these. I have personally found the same to be true with the aircooled ones. Its cheap and dirt simple with the gearbox out of the car. Ray |
Ray, you reference transfer case... I am only familiar with transfer cases on 4WD vehicles... are you talking about Synchros? Or are using this reference as a similarity in application?
The seal between my final drive and the transmission had been blown by, contaminating the final drive with ATF. I did read somewhere about installing two seals 180 degrees from each other in that cavity as an upgrade. |
Sorry....different degrees of definition. For the automatic section many mechanics that I dealt with from long ago called the automatic/planetary section the transfer case to differentiate from the diff section which is seperate in most rear wheel drive and 4 wheel drive cars.
Yes....I am speaking of the seal between the automatic section and the differential.
As for a double seal....I cant say if it works or helps....but the main issue with the seal was material....not mechanical. The seal compound for gear oil and trans fluid needs to be a bit different. They did the best they could with what they had back in the day.....and they failed with age and exposure to both oils. Which one was the worst on the seal.... I dont know.
However...replacing the seal with a modern flouroeslatomer seal would go a long way. Replacing it with one a halfmm smaller and a better spring would help......but just r3placing it at 60-70k miles solves it. It would be rare to not have the whole drive train out for something within 50-60k miles. Its easy to replace and cheap insurance. Ray |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
However...replacing the seal with a modern flouroeslatomer seal would go a long way. Replacing it with one a halfmm smaller and a better spring would help......but just r3placing it at 60-70k miles solves it. It would be rare to not have the whole drive train out for something within 50-60k miles. Its easy to replace and cheap insurance. Ray |
FWIW, the stock seals on the Vanagon 010 were good for several hundred thousand miles, these units were about as bomb proof as anything in the automotive world. |
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